The Three Moves That Got Him Out of the Weeds and Back to BuildingWith Dustin Hippensteel of True Grit Roofing

Eric: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories behind construction business leaders. We will share how they got started, how they found success, and the lessons learned along the way. I’m your host, Eric Fortenberry. Welcome to Builder Stories

Eric: Welcome back, everybody. I’m really excited. We’ve got Dustin Hippensteel with us today. He is, uh, with, with... He’s actually got two companies. We got Sugar Sands Construction, and, uh, as, as of late, he’s, uh, started a new roofing business, True Grit Roofing. Uh, Dustin’s located in Gulf Breeze, Florida. Really excited to have you on the show.

Eric: Welcome to Builder Stories.

Dustin Hippensteel: Thanks for having me, man. I- I’m excited to, uh, share a little bit and see what knowledge we can work with each other on.

Eric: Awesome, man. Well, why don’t you kick us off? Little, little bit of background. Sounds like you’ve been doing, uh, you know, Sugar Sands, the, the, the construction business for, uh, for a little bit longer.

Eric: Maybe tell us, you know, how, how’d you, how’d you start that? Or even before that, how’d you get into construction? What, what [00:01:00] led you down this path, and, uh, what, what, what made you want to be a business owner?

Dustin Hippensteel: So, um, honestly, I, I probably got started in construction when I was, like, 10, 11, 12 years old. My uncle owned a few, uh, rental properties and, and, uh, I remember being on site.

Dustin Hippensteel: We were installing siding, and I was on a roof. I didn’t know what I was doing. I was just up there excited to be up, up so high, you know? And, uh, I remember putting in some subfloor when I was a kid and, uh, kind of did some manual labor as a young man. And then, um, it was probably about 2010, 2011, I, I got in with a, a contractor in the local area.

Dustin Hippensteel: He, he put me on a roof right away, and, uh, kinda had to earn my keep. Grumpy old head, you know, they, they, they will treat you well if you earn your way. And he took me under his wing. He taught me a ton. I mean, I, I learned a lot about just being a man in general, a lot about being a business owner, [00:02:00] and carpentry and, and I mean, we did...

Dustin Hippensteel: One day we’d be doing rough framing, the next we’re doing fine finish carpentry, seven step, crown oak, you know. Um, and it, it just kind of, it, it expanded from there. I, I really fell in love with it, being able to create something with my hands. Uh, about 10 years ago, I, I decided that it was time to jump in on my own, and we were living in New Mexico.

Dustin Hippensteel: I was working at a prison full time, and- My youngest son was born and I, I went and I got all my books, I did all my studying, I passed my test and I became a contractor in the state of New Mexico. And, uh, we jumped in that. We did a lot of roofing and a lot of painting. And then as I progressed and learned a little bit more about business, I absolutely knew nothing.

Dustin Hippensteel: I was the guy that knew how to use the tools and I didn’t know what an LLC was. I didn’t know I needed an EIN. And so I, I learned a lot of it the hard way and that, that’s kind of why I named my business True Grit ’cause I, I’m, I’ve grinded it out and we’ve, we’ve expanded every year and just [00:03:00] gained more knowledge and it’s, it’s really been a journey of, of personal growth and realizing like I need a team, I need to become a better leader, I have to kill my ego and I, I have to really try my best to, to do things and continue to be able to offer a high, high level to people.

Dustin Hippensteel: So yeah, the, the start was, was a little, little gritty but we, uh... After that we moved to Michigan. I got my license in Michigan. I went back to work with my-- the original builder and we built a couple houses and did a ton of remodels. It was like crash course. I learned everything even in more depth. And, uh, 2020 we moved to Mi- to, uh, Florida here and we started Sugar Sands.

Dustin Hippensteel: And Sugar Sands kind of developed from a painting company into construction. We did new build, we did a bunch of remodels. Um, and then recently, uh, True Grit Roofing has been started. [00:04:00] I, uh, I didn’t realize that you had to have specialty licensing in Florida in order to do roofs. Even on the new house we built I couldn’t pull the permit because we did a metal roof so I had to hire another roofer and I said, “This isn’t gonna be the way I’m doing this.”

Dustin Hippensteel: So I went and, and, uh Kinda grinded through that. It was, it was, it was a rough test, honestly. I, I was surprised. It was like 11 books and 85 questions, five-hour test, and, uh, it was a lot of technicalities that you had to really know where to find things at. But it’s been, it’s been off to a great start. We- we’ve hired, um, a production manager, and he’s kinda playing both roles right now.

Dustin Hippensteel: Uh, me and him are pushing through with sales and, and developing a lot of our systems. JobTread has been crucial to us being able to do that. We played around with a few other software programs, um, because we use JobTread for, for Sugar Sands. We said, [00:05:00] “Hey, let’s try some of these other programs that are geared exactly towards roofing.”

Dustin Hippensteel: Ultimately, we decided that JobTread is where we wanted to be. Uh, with everything being in one spot, commun- the communication with customers, your photographs, uh, I mean, the back and forth of being able to track expenses, the files, ev- everything that you can have is there. And it, you... It, it’s a little tough at times because you have to build out your, your templates, but once they’re built out, I mean, it, it’s so simple.

Eric: Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome, man. That’s, uh, it’s, it’s pretty cool that, you know, you, you had the experience on the construction side using JobTread, but then you wanted to, you know, kinda go explore, ’cause, you know, I know there’s a lot of solutions that are specific to, you know, to various niches like roofing and, uh, you know, lo- lo- love hearing, though, uh, ultimately you found your way back for the, uh, for the roofing business as well, so super cool.

Eric: Is there, uh, you know, I, I, I’m curious, you know, you, you’ve obviously been involved in a lot of different types of, of construction work and, you know, everything from, you know, remodels [00:06:00] to building homes to, to painting, to roofing. Like, I’m, I’m curious to learn a little bit more about like, what, what would you say like the differences have been and sort of what, what’s kind of steered you, you know, a- away from some and, and, and to the others?

Eric: Like, did, did you find that, you know, was, was, was one of them easier? Was, was the work, you know, better, more profitable? Like kind of what, what’s, what’s led you to ultimately, you know, kind of focus here with, uh, with TruGrid on, on, on, on the roofing side?

Dustin Hippensteel: That, that’s a great question, man. It’s definitely been a journey.

Dustin Hippensteel: So coming up through the tools, I, I kind of started out building some decks and fencing and, and then as it expanded, I, I was building pole barns and we were doing additions, and I was constantly the problem. I was doing everything. I was drawing the plans. I was submitting all the permitting. I was doing all the material orders, deliveries, all the sales.

Dustin Hippensteel: I was on site working, and I burned myself out. And that’s why Sugar Sands Painting started, [00:07:00] is we were very profitable every time we did a painting job, and it was less on me. I could find painters everywhere. I mean, they’re, they’re a dime a dozen. A good painter is not a dime a dozen, but they’re, they’re out there and that you can make a lot of money if you niche down, and that, that’s ultimately what, what drove us back into to roofing is we’ve always done well when we did roofs.

Dustin Hippensteel: I’m pretty knowledgeable. I, I... By no means am I the roof guru, but I’ve, I’ve been on a lot of roofs. I’ve installed a lot of roofs. Um- With my own hands, and I understand a lot of the systems that are involved. So I, I, uh, I think that has kind of just over time evolved where we’re at today.

Eric: Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s good feedback for, for those out there that are listening that, you know, again, I, I know when you’re starting out, you kinda just gotta get, get a lotta seeds out there, see, see what lands, what sticks, you know, what, what grows for you.

Eric: But, you know, w- would you say that, like, you, you would advise others that, like, it’s important to, to really find your [00:08:00] niche and then, you know, go all in on that versus trying to, to keep being everything to everyone and doing every type of job because, you know, I mean, I... You know, the, the, the work’s there, the opportunity’s there, but the question is, is that, you know, is that best for your business and, and for your teams?

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah. I, I think if you can find the niche that you wanna work in, the niche that you wanna work in, that you are ultimately gonna have the freedom you’re seeking as an entrepreneur. You’re, you’re not gonna be taking everything on. It’s okay to say no to customers. It’s okay to say, “Hey, I don’t wanna do that,” or, “We’re not the best fit for that,” you know?

Dustin Hippensteel: That, that... Those have really freed me up because before, I mean, I had a few referrals from the builder I worked with, and, uh, I felt really obligated to not say no because I was so grateful for the opportunity, and I got myself into some projects that I, I didn’t make money on. I- it was very enjoyable. It was really cool to see that the customer’s super happy, but I, I didn’t know how to price certain things [00:09:00] and you, you know, you...

Dustin Hippensteel: Maybe you got the material right, but now you’re 10 hours in on a two-hour job and, and you just kinda gotta eat it. But it’s It’s something where if you continue down that path, you’re not gonna be successful. So you, you gotta, you gotta learn the hard lessons. You gotta be okay with telling people no. You gotta realize like, hey, you can’t do it all, and that’s okay.

Dustin Hippensteel: If you wanna do it all, you’re gonna go a lot slower and you’re gonna have a lot, a lot harder of a, a road to learn on.

Eric: Yeah. I mean, it does, it, you know, seems like it’s, it’s, uh, you know, figuring out the material, I mean, that’s, that’s often just a calculation based on some measurement data, things like that.

Eric: But like, you know, would you say like, you know, figuring out the hours and being able to estimate that, is that, w- was, was that the harder part that, uh, that, that, that, that often led, led you, led you guys to, uh, to struggle, uh, to, to hit that profit margin that you wanted?

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah. Yeah. The, I mean, uh, coming [00:10:00] from the tools, I was like, “Yeah, everybody’s gonna work hard.

Dustin Hippensteel: Everybody’s gonna show up. They’re gonna be their best every day.” And that’s how I’m, I would calculate, like this pole barn should take X amount of time. Well, I didn’t have the guys for a long time. We didn’t have the system. We didn’t have the actual like quality of, of the team actually in place. So we’d get on site and sometimes they didn’t know what to do, and I’d have...

Dustin Hippensteel: It’d be a teaching moment. So now you’re, you got things drawing out or you’ve gotta go and do it yourself, and they sit around and, and... ’cause you’re at a point where the step has to be done. And, um, that, that definitely made it difficult. It was I’d say it was an adventure, um, that I don’t wanna explore again.

Eric: So, so wait. You’re, you’re saying that your, your guys don’t work as hard as you even though they’re, they’re not the owner?

Dustin Hippensteel: Right. That’s a, that was a tough lesson for me to learn. I’m like, “Hey,” like I, I did all this. You know, I was, I was at a point I was grateful working with that builder, and I went [00:11:00] above and beyond, so I kind of expected that when I started hiring people.

Dustin Hippensteel: And once I realized, like, I didn’t really have much to offer outside of like an hourly wage also, you know, that that’s part of building the business. If, if you really want people to work hard and show up and have a good attitude, you have to really focus on building the business and creating the opportunity that’s gonna matter to them also.

Eric: Yeah, a hun- 100%, man. You know, I, I’m, I’m curious. I, I wanna dive more into that, but like, you know, w- based on what you’ve learned now, like, you know, for, for those who are early on, they’re... You know, again, like the, the biggest challenge I think for, for, for startups and, and, and, and new construction businesses it, it really is knowing your numbers and understanding what does it actually cost you to be able to deliver that project, you know, in order to make the money that you need to make to, to, you know, to, to pay the guys, to, to pay the overhead, to keep the lights on, but then also to still make some money for the business because, you know, I see a lot of people, they, they, they, [00:12:00] they, they just, they underprice their jobs because they don’t truly take into account everything else outside of that job.

Eric: You know, h- how, how have you sort of adapted, you know, your process and, and, and, and, and, and how you estimate these jobs to make sure that you’re gonna make the money that you need to make on each job?

Dustin Hippensteel: I think one of the biggest factors has been expense tracking. We hired a VA a few years back, and she’s been amazing.

Dustin Hippensteel: Like, she, she tracks all the receipts. She works with our bookkeeper to make sure, like, job costing is actually in place. It, it, it’s not something I think you can get squared away right away. You know, if you’re doing a remodel, there’s a lot of unexpected things that can happen, and there’s a lot, like- You know, you open this wall and now it’s full of termite damage, and now you have to rebuild this entire part of the house.

Dustin Hippensteel: How do you account for that? And, you know, it, it’s... Part of it is if you’ve got a customer, you have to come back to [00:13:00] them and be like, “Hey, here’s an unexpected expense. This is what it’s gonna cost to fix it, and this is part of the budget we didn’t really plan for.” So have, have good conversations with the homeowners, have honest conversations with yourself.

Dustin Hippensteel: Don’t, don’t over, overpromise and underli- underdeliver, and keep track of your numbers. If, if you have a receipt, even if it’s a $5 receipt on some screws that you had to pick up, track that, ’cause over the extent of a six-month period on one project, how many of those $5 receipts are you gonna have? And now you, you’ve got maybe another $80 out of here, another 70 here, another 500 there.

Dustin Hippensteel: So I... The, the job costing has made a big difference.

Eric: Yeah. I, you know, I see a lot of people definitely, uh, you know, de- definitely skip over that, and they think, “Oh, you know, we don’t have the people, we don’t have the time. Oh, that’s, you know, that, that, that’s not enough to matter.” And it’s like, man, like, I think it’s more about the discipline of actually [00:14:00] doing the job costing than, you know, look, yeah, sure, $5 isn’t gonna move the needle here or there, but it’s, it’s about making sure that you’re accounting for all of that, you know, in every job because you never know when that five might actually be a 500 that, you know, somehow it got missed and you didn’t know.

Eric: And like, you know, it’s, it’s about, I think, establishing really good disciplines, uh, that, that can, that can help, help save you in the long run It, it’s interesting too, so, so you talked about you hired a VA. Tell us, tell us a little bit more about that because, you know, we’re, we’re seeing a lot of people who, you know, are, are interested in that.

Eric: They’re, they’re... You know, they think, “Man, like I’m, I’m doing all this administrative work. I’m burning myself out. I’m, I’m trying to do everything.” And, and, and, and, and maybe they don’t even realize there’s a VA opportunity, or maybe they do but they don’t know where to start, or they’ve got some concerns.

Eric: You know, how, how did you sort of find out about virtual assistants? And tell us a little bit about that journey.

Dustin Hippensteel: So us hiring a VA, it was like, “Oh, that’s not gonna work.” You know, everybody says the same thing. Like, “What do you mean you work [00:15:00] with someone that lives in the Philippines across the world?” And ultimately, we had a buddy that was working with Steve Rosenberg and kind of told us, “Hey, I, I’ve got a VA.

Dustin Hippensteel: They’re doing ABC for us, and they probably could really help you out with certain things.” So we, we ended up going and, um, we went to one of the summit events in Houston with Steve Rosenberg, and after that, he goes through, he’s got a great event and, and during that he has like set goal markers. And one of our goals was we’re gonna hire a VA when we get back.

Dustin Hippensteel: And it was mind-blowing to us because now all of a sudden I’m not wearing this hat and that hat and that hat. I said, “Here, what are we gonna do here?” Um, we went, and ultimately went with, uh, I can’t remember the name of the website, but we went through a website and, um, we had a few interviews. We ended up finding Mika with, and, uh, she’s worked with us now I think it’s been over two years.

Dustin Hippensteel: Um, works in the Philippines, [00:16:00] very sweet and very loyal. She shows up and she does her job. If she has something that happens, she’ll, she’ll put in other, other time later in the day. And I mean, we pay her eight bucks an hour, which I’ve found some people pay the VAs bi- on bonuses. They pay them four bucks an hour, two bucks an hour to start.

Dustin Hippensteel: There’s a lot of different ways to structure it, but at $8 an hour of American money, in her area, she’s almost making what a lawyer or a doctor would. So it’s, it’s very beneficial to her, and it takes so much off of our workload. She tracks our expenses. She’ll do media posts. She’ll call customers. She’ll follow up and send invoices.

Dustin Hippensteel: She can create invoices. She, she’s great. And I’ve, I’ve... Honestly, I’ve tried to coach other people to do it, and for whatever reason, a lot of people have their blinders on. You know, they, they, they’ve got a roadblock and don’t wanna hire anything out. So a VA is a good safe [00:17:00] way that you’re not gonna spend a ton of money, uh, upfront either.

Dustin Hippensteel: Um, and we, we kind of had that honest conversation, me and my wife, with her. We’re like, “Hey, we, we really don’t know what we need you to do. We know we need help.” And it’s just kind of developed from there, and she’s gained a lot of skills because of it. And, and, um- She’s also helped us build out a lot of SOPs.

Dustin Hippensteel: So when a phone, when the phone rings, what do we do? You know, we’ve got a full list of everything that needs to do- be done, that anybody can come in and, and read that script and follow through with, so.

Eric: Yeah. Now that, uh, we, we were also at that event with, uh, Steve Rosenberg, it was Mach 5. Uh, you know, a- a- awesome, awesome event.

Eric: They, they did a really great job. But, you know, I, I think, you know, just like you, it’s, it’s being kind of shown that, hey, like there, there is a better way and, and, and there’s other ways that, that you can get the, you know, again, those, those fundamental blocking and tackling done without having to spend all of that overtime and [00:18:00] spending your nights and your weekends and time away from the family, like doing that administrative work.

Eric: I mean, it, it, it needs to get done one way or another. But man, it’s, there, there’s such a better way and if, if, if you can find a good VA, which, you know, and I, I know Steve and, and their team, they, they help, you know, source them and, and, and help kind of make that, that match. You know, but once you find that person, and even if, even if you, you, you hire someone, they’re not a great fit, then you gotta find someone else.

Eric: Like, eventually you will find that right person for your business who, you know, ultimately, like e- even though they are across the world, they feel like they’re, they’re on your team. Like they, they get it. They learn you. They know you. They’re there for you. They’re dependable. And, and, and at a, at a fraction of the cost.

Eric: You know, again, it, it is a no-brainer to try it. And, and I see people who end up hiring multiple of them after they’ve, you know, they’ve, they’ve seen the benefits of one. And, and, and again, it sounds like you’re not, not just doing the, the job costing and creating the invoice and the bills, but like they’re helping with social, they’re helping with SOPs.

Eric: Like, there are so many things that when, when people stop to think about, you know, what am I actually spending my time on? You know, there’s probably a [00:19:00] lot that you can take off of your plate so that you can focus on the much higher priority and focus on the clients and the relationships and, you know, overseeing the, the, the business instead of every single day doing every single nitty-gritty task that has to be done.

Dustin Hippensteel: Absolutely.

Eric: That’s, uh, you know, so, so I’m curious, the, uh, uh, another group I, I think you mentioned that you’re working with was, uh, was, was, was Limitless, uh, Roofing Group. Tell us, tell us a little bit about that. Who, who are they and, and what do they do for you?

Dustin Hippensteel: Limitless has been awesome. I, I personally have not been able to dedicate as much time to them, so I, I, I don’t know ex- 100% of what they’re doing, but I know that they offer a lot for roofers, um, including, like, rebates and, and just group events, and they do a lot of training.

Dustin Hippensteel: They, they, they’ve had a lot of success, and they’re giving back, and I, I think the roofing community is good because of that, because there’s so many people that have had success, and now they wanna give back and share and help other people grow, and, and Limitless is, is right there, man. They, [00:20:00] they’ve, they’ve helped out a lot.

Eric: Yeah, it, it really is, uh, is, is, is an awesome group, you know, and, and, and Dylan and, and their team, I mean... You know, I think the thing that was really surprising to us is just, like, how they have put this, this group buying program together where, like, it, it doesn’t even cost you anything. All, all you have to do is, is join the group, and then they, like, you know, take kinda whoever you’re buying from, whether it’s SRS, QXO, you know, and, and they just connect your account, and then you just automatically get a rebate for, for your purchases.

Eric: And it’s like it, it, it do- it doesn’t cost you anything. Like, what an awesome opportunity. Like, I, I don’t understand- Yeah ... why everyone doesn’t go jump on that. I mean, that is free money right there, and then all of the other stuff on top of, you know, that and what they’re providing, the educations, the trainings, the, the events.

Eric: Like, I mean, I just, I, I love, I love seeing when groups are not only, you know, adding monetary value to you, but they’re also giving you all of those intangibles, that, that training, the education, creating that community. You know, I think that’s so important in this day and age.

Dustin Hippensteel: [00:21:00] Absolutely, and I, I mean that, that’s a big thing with JobTread also.

Dustin Hippensteel: Like, that, that was ultimately a deciding factor why we went with you guys, is you... Limitless has a Facebook group that is, uh, very beneficial. You can go make a post and get a lot of interactions. JobTread has a Facebook where, I mean, we’ve interacted on, on Facebook and kind of gone back and forth with some ideas, and that, that’s amazing.

Dustin Hippensteel: Like, you can’t do that in a lot of places, so, uh, the community is the big deal.

Eric: Absolutely. You know, you, you talked about earlier just kind of the, the importance of, of sort of really focusing on developing, you know, the, the company and, and, and the business and the culture and your people. Can you, can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Eric: ’Cause, ’cause I see a lot of people, they, again, they, they, they, they struggle to, to go from this, like, solo owner/operator, “I, I’m, I’m the entrepreneur, I’m putting on every hat, I’m selling the job, I’m running the job, I’m, you know, trying to do everything myself,” to, like, being able to, to let go a little bit and, and, and, and finding the right people, [00:22:00] delegating, trusting.

Eric: Like, I know this is a really big challenge for a lot of people, so, so how did you make that jump? And, and, and tell us, you know, what, what’s that look like for you?

Dustin Hippensteel: I’m still learning how to make that jump. I think, like I said, it’s personal development. You, you, you run into a lot of obstacles if you’re trying to do everything yourself.

Dustin Hippensteel: And ultimately, my, my big thing with starting a business is I wanted to help other people along the way. If I’m doing everything, I’m, I’m not helping everybody. I’m not giving them opportunity, and that-- at this point, that’s my job is to provide opportunity for others and give them what they need. So I, I’ve had to go and read the books.

Dustin Hippensteel: I’ve had to go and, and sit in front of people and listen to things, and I’ve had to do a lot of work on myself, killing my ego, thinking that I, I’m supposed to do everything, that I can do everything, and that, that’s just not the way. And I think, I think that’ll resonate with a lot of the blue-collar brothers.

Dustin Hippensteel: You know, we, we’ve, we’ve-- we’re gonna get it done, you know? [00:23:00] And sometimes I think that’s not always the best way to do it. You know? Becoming a leader and being able to have a good conversation with someone and being like, “Hey, I’d really like you to do it this way, and here’s why.” Um, being able to communicate better and explain yourself, that those things go so much further and actually build a culture where people wanna be working with you.

Dustin Hippensteel: Obviously, you gotta be honest, you gotta be-- have good integrity, you gotta be professional, you’ve gotta have a good heart, and, and with all those things combined, you, you can really have that culture That has the accountability that y- you’re, you’re bringing people in that they’re not scared to make the call.

Dustin Hippensteel: You know, whether it’s a, “Hey man, you did great,” or, “Hey, you really screwed up on this. What do we n- what do we gotta do?” Even to a homeowner, you know? Like my lead guy at True Grid, he says, “Good or bad, we’re gonna get this thing squared away.” And we’ve had a few hiccups. I mean, it, it’s business, you know? We...

Dustin Hippensteel: But it’s how you handle it, and that- that’s the culture that I wanna continue to grow, [00:24:00] and, uh, it all starts with the leader, and then you, you kinda gotta build it out and, and grow from there.

Eric: Yeah. You know, it’s interesting ’cause, you know, I, I, I, I think, you know, a, a lot of entrepreneurs and, and, and people, I mean, you, you gotta have, you know, a, a little bit of that, kind of that, that, that ego, that, that exuberance, that confidence to be willing to say, “I can build a business.

Eric: I can do it myself. I’m gonna go out there and, and I’m gonna, you know, put my name on the line.” You know, but it, it’s, it’s... You know, that, that, that can also start to hinder you, you know, if, if you can’t, you know, kind of be able to set that down and, and say, “Man, like it’s no longer just about me. It’s about building something greater than me.

Eric: It’s about the brand. It’s about the culture, the company.” And, and when... And, you know, I, I see a lot of people who th- they struggle to, to, to, to kinda keep the ego in check and, and, and to, you know, to, to even be able to sort of put it away and say, “Man, like okay, it’s, it’s, it’s not just me anymore,” you know?

Eric: Like h- h- how did you, you know, kind of go through that? Because I, I, I know it’s not easy. You know, [00:25:00] again, we’re, we’re, you know, we’re all entrepreneurs here. We’re, we’re all like, you know, just w- wanna drive and, and believe that we can do it better than everyone else, and that’s why we started this thing in the first place.

Eric: But like, you know, again, like that, that, that’s, that’s a short term, you know, our back’s against the wall, we’re fighting to survive. But like once you get over that hump, you know, now you gotta have this transition. I think a lot of people struggle to really make that transition. And, and just like you said, it’s, it’s a personal development thing.

Eric: It’s, it’s, it’s a mindset thing. You know, did, did you work with, you know, mentors or coaches? Or who, who helped you kind of learn that?

Dustin Hippensteel: I, I became a student of everything. I, I, I reached out to people and had conversations that I normally just wouldn’t have. Um, I talked to people that were in much better places than me with their business.

Dustin Hippensteel: I, I hired a few coaches along the years. I’ve, I’ve, I’ve really tried to continue to push forward. I think a big thing that... I, I had a buddy tell me the other day, “What got you here will not get you there.” And [00:26:00] yeah, I, I 100% think that the grind and the, the ego and, and just the knuckle dragging that gets things going is important, and it, it...

Dustin Hippensteel: You have to have that to persevere through the beginning, but it, it’s not gonna get you to build the million-dollar business to $10 million to $20 million business. You’re just, you’re not gonna get there with that same mindset of having to do everything and, and working all them extra hours. Sometimes the extra hours, you’re just busy and you’re not even productive.

Dustin Hippensteel: You’re getting nowhere. And, and you gotta recognize those things.

Eric: Yeah. So, you know, hi- hiring coaches, you know, net- networking with others, I mean, you know, I think these are all great, you know, great moves. You know, I, I, I definitely see people, you know, when, when they think about hiring a coach, they’re like, “Ah, I don’t need a coach,” like, “That’s, that’s too expensive,” or, “What do they...

Eric: You know, they don’t understand my business. They don’t know what I’m going through.” Like, you know, was, was that something that, that, that you struggled with as well?

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah. Um, I, I’ve, I’ve- Not been able to find too many coaches that I honestly [00:27:00] respect. So that, that’s, that’s a tough thing that you have to...

Dustin Hippensteel: It’s like hiring. Hiring, hiring our VA or hiring our production or hiring, uh, labor on, on the job site, there’s no different from finding a coach. They have to be a good fit, you have to align with morals, and you have to understand, like, maybe they’re, they’re not a great coach, but they, they’ve got great marketing, you know?

Dustin Hippensteel: Um, it, it’s, it’s one of those things where if, if you find the wrong person, it’s okay to cut ties and move on. And don’t, don’t think that that is the end of it either. Like, “Oh, I tried that and it’s, it didn’t work.” You know, I, I think a lot of us i- in the trades are, are, “Well, I did it once and that’s it.

Dustin Hippensteel: I’ll never do it again.” And that, that’s a terrible mentality to have. You didn’t get where you’re at by not trying new things.

Eric: Absolutely.

Dustin Hippensteel: So I think that- that’s been really helpful is, [00:28:00] like, sometimes it, it’s been detrimental also because I’m like, “Well, what do we gotta do? What do we gotta do? W- who’s got the answer?”

Dustin Hippensteel: Um, or, “Where can I find the answer?” And then sometimes, like, I’ve already figured it out, I just haven’t given myself the space to allow that to, to, like, make sense.

Eric: Yeah. No, I, I tell people all the time, I mean, just really with, with, with finding, you know, any partner, whether it’s a, a coach, it’s a marketing agency or bookkeeper, you know, whatever it may be, like, it’s, it’s so important that, that you take the time to get to know them.

Eric: You know, you’re, you’re interviewing them, you know, just like any other employee or, or, or trade or whatever. Like, you gotta make sure that they align with you and that that’s somebody who you wanna work with. And then I think it’s also about having very clear expectations. Like, you know, what is gonna be the cadence of our, of our meetings?

Eric: Like, how are we gonna define success? What are the deliverables? Like, how will we, you know, monitor and make sure that this is working? And if it’s not, you know, what, what are our options [00:29:00] here? Like, how, how are we gonna be able to, you know, to, to say, “Hey, look, let, let’s... This isn’t working. Let’s part ways.”

Eric: You know, but I think it’s about making sure, you know, upfront you do your due diligence. And, and, and don’t just hire the first person that comes along. You know, go and talk to a couple of them. You know, join their communities. You know, watch, watch their content, their, their, you know, kind of whatever, you know, their specialty is.

Eric: Like, really dig in a little bit and learn and understand. You know, check the reviews, talk to references, like other people that have worked with them. And, and then it’s about, you know, making sure, like, is this somebody that you wanna work with and that you trust and that you can be open with? And I think when people take that time, you know, to, to, to really find those, those, those right partners for the business, it can be...

Eric: I- it can make a huge difference.

Dustin Hippensteel: It, it really does. It, it’s, um... One of the coaches that I, I, I have been following and had a few conversations with is, is, uh, Bob Turner. Um, and he worked with Steve for a while too, but he’s He’s very genuine, and we had a conversation with me starting [00:30:00] Tru grit and trying to figure out what to do with Sugar Sands and, and realizing, like, I can’t do it all.

Dustin Hippensteel: Okay? If, if I’m gonna do something, I, I’ve gotta kinda make a choice. And he said, uh, he said very simple... Every coach that I’ve talked to that has just... They’ve, they’ve, they’ve got a way of simplifying things, right? And he told me, he said, “You know, you’re an entrepreneur. You, you’ve been a contractor for 10 years.

Dustin Hippensteel: Your worst case scenario if, if roofing doesn’t work out, you go back to being a contractor, and you trim out a few houses and continue to make money and do your thing. Or worst case scenario is you get a job, you know?” And I’m like, “Okay. Well, I mean that-- we’re gonna make money either way. Why not go and try to do this and push hard on it?”

Dustin Hippensteel: So I think a good coach will just simplify everything you got going on, but you’ve gotta be, again, with the ego, you gotta kill the ego and be vulnerable enough to, to have those conversations with someone and realize you can still learn.

Eric: 100%. [00:31:00] So I’m curious, where, you know, what, what motivates and what’s, what’s driving you?

Eric: Like, where, where do you wanna see your business go, you know, in the next three, five, 10 years? Like, what’s kind of the longer term vision and plan?

Dustin Hippensteel: That’s a great question, Eric. I, I, I’ve continued to have this adjust and develop over the years. When I, when I first started my roofing, uh, the construction company, it was because I wanted something more for my sons.

Dustin Hippensteel: I have three boys, and they, they were the heart and soul of why this started. And I-- if I didn’t learn how to work with my hands, I would not have an opportunity to do other things. I’ve, I’ve... I worked in a prison, and that’s a terrible place. Whether you work there or you have to live there, it’s a terrible place to be, and I wanted more.

Dustin Hippensteel: So that has continued to develop, and now my sons are getting older and I’ve, I’ve ran some businesses. I’ve done well with certain things and, and not [00:32:00] so well with other things, and I’ve realized that I wanna build a team. I wanna provide more opportunity. One of the coolest things I ever did when I first started, I had, I had some young guys, um, in New Mexico.

Dustin Hippensteel: It was one of my last projects. We did a 30 square roof, and we painted the inside and did flooring and just got this house ready to rent. And, um, it was one of my first times giving anybody, like, a paycheck at the end of the week. I’m like, “Man, this, this is pretty cool.” Like, because of my decisions and my, my work, now I provided work for someone else, and now they can go live their life.

Dustin Hippensteel: And they, they, they have the opportunity to do things with the money they’ve earned. That, that was a whole different mindset for me and, and really I have not changed from there. I like providing opportunity for other people. With the roofing company, I mean, if we hire the right salespeople, we’ve got the right training in place, we have the right culture.

Dustin Hippensteel: I mean, a roofing salesperson, [00:33:00] storm or not, I mean, they can make six up to seven figures depending on how good they are and how well they develop themselves. So now with my sons getting a little older, I’ve, I’ve tried to incentivize them. They’ve, they’ve got a, um, business at... They’re the mailbox boys. Um, so they go around and they, they install mailboxes for other builders and, and stuff in the area.

Dustin Hippensteel: And I told them, I said, “Hey guys, if you go and sell a roof-” you, you’re gonna make 500 a roof, you know? And I said, “Whoever sells the first roof, you get $100 bonus.” And not that they’re gonna be out on roofs, I mean, they’re, they’re still young, um, but it, just kind of planting that seed and, and giving that opportunity to them.

Dustin Hippensteel: That, that’s, that’s really the next step of this is I, I’ve made it a point to make sure that I’m hiring people that, I mean, we’ve, we’re interviewing our, our second salesman this afternoon, and just wanna build the team and provide opportunity for other people. That, that’s gonna bring back a lot [00:34:00] more than just financial means to me, but that, I think that’s really ultimately what, what we all want, you know?

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. You know, again, I see a lot of people go into it just, you know, they’re in a situation where they know they gotta, they gotta do something different. They’re not happy. They’re not making the money they need. They’re, they’re not getting to spend the time with their family that they want, and that kind of, you know, out of necessity drives them to, to start the business.

Eric: But, you know, I, I, I really believe that, like, as soon as you can have that mindset of like how can I, you know, really get that, that, that intrinsic value from, from helping others, from, from just doing good, from, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s this like just incredible, you know, shift where it, it, it... Y- you find that, like, at the end of the day, I mean, the, the, the money, you know, the, the money’s gonna continue to come, but when you really focus on, on adding as much value and helping as many other people, whether it’s your, your clients, whether it’s your, you know, your employees, your trades, like who- whoever it is, like, you know, that, that, that, that, that giving, you know, it just, it just seems like the universe, like, the, the [00:35:00] more that you give and that you try to help others and do good, like, the more that just comes back to you, you know?

Eric: It’s, it’s, it’s such an interesting, you know, thing that happens, but like it, I think it also helps you sort of see the bigger picture and, and to really put things into perspective in life is that, man, like, you know, this, this life is too short, and, and all the money we make, we’re not gonna be able to take with us, you know, at some point.

Eric: And so it’s like How can we leave that legacy? How can we, you know, leave this, this world a better place? How can we, you know, build a great business that, you know, maybe one or all of your boys take over at some point? And like when you’ve set them up for success, you know, I think that’s like what’s, what’s really exciting and, and, and, and will help to drive, you know, especially when times are tough, you know?

Eric: Like you, you got something more than j- just that, you know, paycheck that, that’s gonna kinda help fuel you through, you know, those hard times. So it’s, you know, it’s, it’s definitely a really good, you know, thing to, to, to think about. And, and, and I think a lot of people don’t, you know, don’t take enough time to really sit down and, and, and do those, those reflections about who are we, [00:36:00] you know?

Eric: Who, who, who is this business, you know? What is, what is our brand? What is our mission? What is our vision? Like why are we doing this, you know? Because like this is hard work, you know? I mean, your, your, your guys, they’re, they’re, they’re risking their, their, their own, you know, health and wellbeing getting up on those roofs every day, you know.

Eric: Why are they doing that? Like what is, you know, motivating everyone to, to, to put themselves in that situation? And it’s about helping others, you know? And, and I think that there’s the, that, that’s, it’s just such an important thing to, to take the time to really reflect on like what’s the bigger picture here?

Eric: And, and, and ultimately like when you can dial that in, like I feel like that like just, it just helps attract so many more to your business

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah, the, the finances is, is never-- I mean, like you said, it’s a necessity in the beginning, but i-it’s, it’s a byproduct of one- once you finally start putting some key place, key things into place that people really want to go and do things.

Dustin Hippensteel: Everybody’s gotta [00:37:00] work, you know? Um, I mean, maybe not everybody, but most people have to work, and th-they wanna work at someplace that is enjoyable, that they, they feel needed and they have purpose. And that’s our job as, as business owners to provide that and, and create that vision. And it’s, it’s, it’s definitely been one, one of the most rewarding parts of this.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. You know, one other, one other thing I, I wanted to circle back to. So, you know, you, you talked about, you know, setting up SOPs and, and, and, and, and really kind of, you know, you, you, you’ve got software, you’ve got, you know, kind of these, these, these systems built out. Like, can you, can you tell us a little bit more about, like, what, what have been the most important, like, SOPs for your business that, you know, you feel like once they got put into place, they, they really provided clarity, they’ve, they’ve helped you to keep building, keep growing, you know, onboard new people?

Dustin Hippensteel: The SOPs were tough in the beginning because it was just me, my wife, and the VA. So who do you give the SOP to, right? [00:38:00] Like, how do you have this? And then we started realizing, like, we need an onboarding process for our subcontractors. We needed to have some type of guideline for them to follow and, and understand, like, “Here’s how you get paid.

Dustin Hippensteel: Here’s the insurance you have to have.” Um, and then all the way to phone calls. If, if I was gonna stop taking phone calls, well, how do I take what’s in my head and put it on paper so that everybody can kinda have a, a similar conversation, but still... I mean, you gotta get your name, phone number, address, what, what type of project, what are you looking to do, things like that.

Dustin Hippensteel: So the, the SOPs really helped simplify a lot of that. Um, I think one of the most important SOPs we have is, is call intake, lead intake. We, we really focus on customer experience. We, we wanna make sure that the customer’s happy with us, even if they don’t go with us, that we’ve provided some type of value.

Dustin Hippensteel: You know, we- we’ve educated them on some level. Um, so the SOPs that are revolving around any customer [00:39:00] interaction, in my opinion, has probably been one of the best ones that we’ve created.

Eric: Yeah. That’s, that’s awesome. You know, and, and can’t tell you the number of times, you know, you, you hear these, you know, these guys, they’ve been, they’ve been doing it for, you know, decades and like, you know, it’s, it...

Eric: But it, but it’s all in their head, you know? And, and they haven’t ever taken the time to just sit down and, and, and try to write it all down and create this process so that, you know, one day, you know, if you wanna hire someone or if, or f- you know, God forbid something happens to you, like, the business doesn’t just like, you know, evaporate.

Eric: It’s, it’s, it’s about creating, you know, those, those, those, those, those documents and those trainings and those, you know, SOPs that will, that will give you so much more longevity. And, and ultimately, like, when, when it’s not all in your head, you can actually take the time to step back and say, “Man, does this process make sense?”

Eric: You know, like where, where are these processes breaking down? Like, are these... Are there bottlenecks here that like I, you know, I, I just didn’t see every day because I was just doing it, and it’s like this rat race that I’m on. But like, when you actually write it [00:40:00] down and document it, like, it, it’s so insightful that you can see kind of like, wow, you know, man, like I’m...

Eric: Seems like I could optimize this or streamline that, or, you know, why am I doing it like this, you know? Like, but it, but it kinda takes that, that, that, that I’ve gotta step back from the day-to-day to start planning and to start like, you know, having a little bit more of that higher level strategy about what is our business, how are we operating, you know?

Eric: And, and, and I see that like as a, as a huge turning point for people, and then they realize, “Man, I could actually go and, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m doing all these things myself. Like, maybe here’s an opportunity. There’s an entire role here, you know, where I could go bring somebody on.” And, you know, as long as, you know, it makes sense and, you know, y- the cash flow is there, and you can afford it, like, by all means, like that’s how you keep growing and pushing forward.

Dustin Hippensteel: 100%. You know that I, I kinda wanna circle back and, and you brought up a great point of having everything in your head. I was the same way. I didn’t, I didn’t really have any management team, and I didn’t have all these other things going. I just knew what [00:41:00] had to be done, and I did it, and I bought things and made sure they were on site to be installed.

Dustin Hippensteel: And one of the big things that, um was, was said when we started Sugar Sands Construction is my wife was like, “You did everything.” I was the bookkeeper. I, you know, we went through it. I, I did all of it. And I said, “If we’re gonna start this again, we can’t do that.” And so part of that was hiring Mika, and then Mika almost became like a, a forensic scientist because she had to decipher everything that was in my head.

Dustin Hippensteel: So if anybody that is kind of all in their head and they’re struggling of how to get it all out or how to organize things, a VA can help you do that. Or, or just, I mean, an office staff can help you do that. But you’re gonna have to have a conversation with them of like, “Hey, I’m on site. Just, just write this down or pull up, pull up Fathom and have them transcribe our conversation.”

Dustin Hippensteel: And go through, “All [00:42:00] right, this is the next steps.” E- even if it’s just as simple as project management, put it all out there. That, that, that would be one of the best things you can do as a new business owner is to track, obviously your expenses, but track what operations are happening daily, and then have someone work with you to decipher where you can improve or, or what needs to have a little more attention, or how to organize certain things.

Dustin Hippensteel: And, and I mean, you’ll, you’ll go from zero to hero pretty quick doing those kind of things. Like that- Yeah ... that’s crucial.

Eric: I’m curious, have you, uh, have you guys been using any, uh, any AI i- with the business?

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah. Yeah. My, my wife’s actually our IT person. Um, she, she loves it, man. She’s built our website.

Dustin Hippensteel: She handles our SEO. Um, Sugar Sands Painting was number one in the area for years. Um, and then recently she’s figured out the AI agents. Like, so, so for True Grit, [00:43:00] we have Wendy. Um, I think her name’s Wendy Storm, but she answers the phone for us whenever we can’t pick it up. And it’s set up to take all the calls and, and ask certain questions, “Hey, do you have a leak?

Dustin Hippensteel: What’s your name?” And I, I’ve gone through it. I’ve tried to break it, and you just make the adjustments. And it, it’s been fun. I mean, the, the back end of stuff too where, where AI can help come in and, and fill in some of the gaps of what needs to happen next or the follow through of, um, appointment setting.

Dustin Hippensteel: You know, if we get an appointment that’s set on, on our website, all the follow-ups that happen with there. It’s, it’s been fun.

Eric: Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s ridiculously powerful. You know, I think it, it, it, just like everything else, takes a little bit of learning, a little bit of, you know, kind of just you, you, you gotta get in there and you gotta play with it and experiment and, and figure out what, what makes sense For your business, but like, man, when you take the time [00:44:00] to do that, I mean, it, it’s just, it’s, it’s huge, and it’s, it’s like having another, you know, employee, except it’s at a fraction of the cost.

Eric: I mean, you know, basically it’s, it’s a nominal expense. I don’t even know if I’d call it, you know, a fraction of an employee cost, because, you know, you’re either paying 20 bucks or 100 bucks a month, but it’s, it’s, it’s a nominal expense for the horsepower that it can provide. And, you know, a lot of people don’t even realize yet, but, like, you can connect your, your Claude, your ChatGPT, like, to your JobTread and, like, it will actually go and, like, it can go and, and, and, and, and use, you know, JobTread for you.

Eric: It can read data. It can, you know, create data. It can, you know, o- look over your budgets, look over your proposals, give you feedback. It can compare one job to the next, like, you know, setting up those automated processes where the agents can go in and they can, you know, help, help do this. You know, again, a lot of this manual administrative, you know, work can, can be done for you.

Eric: But, you know, even just having that second set of, you know, I, I, I guess I can’t call it second set of eyes, but, like, you know, like, before you send that proposal, just, “Hey, you know, Claude, go, go, go review this [00:45:00] job. Like, give me any feedback. Like, did I miss anything? Like, look at my ma- last five jobs. Like, do you see anything there that, like, I didn’t account for here?”

Eric: Like, you know, again, it takes an extra couple minutes, but that, that, that little bit of effort could save you big time if you did miss something. And, and so, like, I’m, I’m a huge proponent of it. I, I think, you know, a lot of people, you know, if they don’t know where to start, just ask it, “Hey, how could I, you know, benefit from, from AI?”

Eric: It’s that simple. Like, “How could you help me with my business?”

Dustin Hippensteel: Yeah, we’ve been using Claude with, with JobTread, and it- it’s made a big difference, um, especially, I mean, like, like I brought up in the beginning, some of the, the, the hard part with JobTread is it’s so powerful. What do you do? Well, us having the knowledge we had, my wife said, “I’m gonna set this up a lot faster, but I’m gonna use Claude.”

Dustin Hippensteel: And I mean, it, it game changer. She’s like, “Holy cow, this thing did so much for us. This is great.” And now we’ve, we just basically took hours and hours and days and days of, of connecting dots and [00:46:00] doing things and Packed it down into 20 minutes with an AI and figured it out- Yeah ... and then put it all into place.

Eric: Well, we, we, we got lots more exciting, uh, AI updates coming. We’re, we’re about to actually, uh, ro- roll out some of our own kind of directly in the app to help people, you know, kind of... We’re s- we’re starting with like a, a, a support assistant, help assistant there that can, you know, help people learn how to do things, you know, it can kind of read data, where...

Eric: Well, eventually we’ll implement more things that will help, you know, with your estimating and scheduling and all that, but we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re also kind of taking it a little bit slow. We wanna be very mindful. You know, I, I do think that with AI there is this, uh, this, this risk where, you know, people, people just see it as an easy button, and they just, they go click that easy button and they, and they forget that, you know, look, you, you still need to double-check everything, ’cause AI makes, makes mistakes.

Eric: It totally hallucinates, you know? And so I, I, I, I want people to remember that, like, you’re still the expert. You know, at the end of the day, the buck stops with you, not, not with AI, and whether it got it right or got it wrong, like it’s, it’s, it’s your responsibility. But, you know, it can, it can make a [00:47:00] huge difference for people’s businesses and, you know, I’m, I’m seeing the people that, that have really gotten into it and have started to adopt it.

Eric: You know, I mean, they, they, they pretty immediately can say, “Holy cow. This is a game changer.” So, you know, I encourage those of you out there who, who are a little skeptical or hesitant still, like, man, you, you, you gotta start digging in, ’cause it can make a big, big impact.

Dustin Hippensteel: Absolutely.

Eric: Well look, Dustin, this is, this has been awesome, man.

Eric: I, I, again, I, I really appreciate you coming on, sharing a little bit of the behind the scenes, kind of h- how you’ve gotten going, some of the challenges that you’ve had. You know, just in, in wrapping up here, you know, I’d, I’d, I’d love to know, you know, i- if, if, if, if, if you think back about what you’ve learned, you know, o- over the course of your career, like, you know, what, what advice would you give, you know, others who, who, let’s say they’re, they’re getting started or, or just started their business, but maybe they’re earlier on, they’re struggling, like, you know, what, what do you wish you would’ve known, you know, day one that, that, that, that you now know that, that you think might help someone else?

Dustin Hippensteel: I’d, I think, I think there’s a lot to unpack there, but if, [00:48:00] if we’re gonna, gonna try to compress it, I mean, the, the big thing I would leave with anybody that’s starting out is, is be a good student. Be a good student of anyone and everyone, and learn how to decipher and, and, and really work through a lot of that information.

Dustin Hippensteel: There’s a lot of ways that you can make a million bucks. You gotta figure out which works best for you, and- That’s not gonna happen overnight. So stick with it, keep grinding, and understand that y- you have now jumped into a group of people that they wanna see you win also. I, I’ve, I, I consider entrepreneurship, we all have our own islands, and networking just builds the bridges to each other, and we...

Dustin Hippensteel: I’ve not met very many entrepreneurs that are not willing to share and, and are excited, like, “Hey, man, this will work. This is what you gotta do.” They’ve got some motivation. They’ve got some b- sad stories. You know, things happen, and it’s all part of it. So whatever story that [00:49:00] you’re following within yourself as you’re starting out, make sure you stick with it and, and just don’t quit.

Eric: 100%, man. Great, great advice. Again, really appreciate you coming on, sharing this story. You know, I hope that it helps, helps others out there. You know, you’ve, you’ve obviously learned, learned a lot along the way, you know, but you’re doing a great job building great businesses. Like, you know, I, I can’t wait to see what, what the future holds for you, ’cause I know, you know, when you focus on the right things and you’ve got the right, you know, mindset to, to continue to grow yourself, to grow your team, you know, to, to be able to deliver great value and, and help others, like I, I think those are the, the keys to success and, and, and I see you making all the right moves.

Eric: So real excited to see what the future holds for you. You know, appreciate you coming on. Keep up the great work, man.

Dustin Hippensteel: Absolutely. I appreciate the invite, man, and, and, uh, I’ve, I’ve got a lot of good things I could say about you as well and, and what you’re doing with the JobTread team. So keep it up. We’re, we’re here for it.

Eric: Awesome. Appreciate it. Have a good one, Dustin.

Dustin Hippensteel: Take care, man.

Eric: Thanks [00:50:00] for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights that can help you in your journey along the way. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. And as always, if you or someone you know has a story to share, please contact us at builderstories.com.

Eric: We’d love to hear from you. I’m Eric Fortenberry, and remember, every builder has a unique story. Keep building yours.