How to Price Work Correctly and Sell it with VideoWith Dan Flansburg of Flansburg Construction

Eric Fortenberry: Welcome back everybody. Today I’m excited to be here with Dan Flansburg, who is the owner of Flansburg Construction. They’re located in Hamilton, New Jersey. Really appreciate coming on the show, Dan. Welcome to Builder Stories.

Dan Flansburg: Thanks for having me.

Eric Fortenberry: Well why don’t you kick us off with a little bit of background, you know, who you are, how’d you get into construction, what led you to to to to own a construction business?

Dan Flansburg: so it construction for me started off at a at an early age, working with my father. He was a deck builder and general contractor in like the central Jersey area. And twelve, thirteen years old, I would go to work with him, carry lumber, sometimes help, sometimes get in the way, sometimes get yelled at. so you know, at that age it yeah, it was I I worked kind of when I wanted to, but I always had an interest in in construction, carpentry.

Dan Flansburg: I was always very had a lot of aptitude in like wood shop class. You know, I was always the one that got to do like the special projects with the wood shop teacher because all the other kids are, you know, kind of behind, and I wanted to use the more advanced tools and things like that. And then also there was an entrepreneurial side to things. I always, you know, I had a lawn cutting business at 12, 13, 14 years old when I wasn’t, when I didn’t have to go to work.

Dan Flansburg: With my father, I would I would cut lawns and things like that. So I always liked that freedom of of being able to control my time, being able to control the client relationship. So fast forward a little bit, you know, went to some community college and things after high school. Kind of was a knucklehead in my late late teens, early 20s, and you know, lacked direction and things.

Dan Flansburg: things. So did a few different things in that late teens, early twenties and then ultimately ended up coming back to to construction, carpentry. Ended up in my early twenties working with my father again. He had his own business. And this time it worked, you know, we got along a lot better. I learned a a ton of things.

Dan Flansburg: And I I’ve shared before he’s he he’s very good at the construction part, but he wasn’t, you know, he’ll self admittedly he wasn’t the best business person in the world and you know, struggled with being able to charge enough, struggled with keeping track of things. So we worked together for about five years, that ended, and then I went and worked for a few other companies, all the while kinda in the back of my head thinking I was gonna start my own company at some point.

Dan Flansburg: So my wife and I, you know, we have been married since I was twenty five, so even early on in our marriage we we knew we were gonna start a company at some point. so working for other people, I worked for a couple of high end builders in the area, doing remodeling and and building.

Dan Flansburg: In the meantime too, I went to school for project management, a community college, took some courses on contract law, you know, just basic things while simultaneously running jobs. And then two thousand eleven we ultimately made the decision for me to go out on my own and you know, started off really small, just me.

Dan Flansburg: truck tools and just kinda kept it really simple, did really small jobs. You know, I didn’t have any formal business plan at that point. It was just more or less, I’m just gonna take the jobs as they come, try our best not to lose money and you know, see see what happens.

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah, that’s awesome, man. So sounds like you really you you grew up, you know, seeing your dad, you know, be an entrepreneur, grew up around construction, got a lot of a lot of experience along the way and that, you know, gave you gave you the skills and you know the desire to go start your own, which is which is awesome. So what like what what does the business look like today? Like what what types of jobs do you do? How you know, how big are those jobs? What’s what’s the major focus?

Dan Flansburg: So that

Dan Flansburg: The business has certainly evolved since two thousand eleven. Right now, currently we’re a team of twelve people and that that consists of me as the owner. My wife is is still involved. She’s not technically an owner, but she oversees the financial part of the business, which has been a key. So I think, you know, w with with the listeners out there just letting them know, having somebody who’s control in control of the financials, who’s who’s savvy, who can see things before

Dan Flansburg: happen type of a thing who is against spending money that you don’t have. I think it’s crucial to have that person in your corner, especially if you know, if you’re not a financially driven type person, then a lot of a lot of contractors are not.

Dan Flansburg: So she still she still does the books and you know does the financial oversights. That’s that’s her only role in the business. She doesn’t get into design or anything. And then we have we have a lead designer, assistant designer, and then another designer that does kitchens and baths, we have a production manager, three project managers, and then a couple of lead carpenters that w where we self perform some things, and another person that does our our marketing and things.

Dan Flansburg: yeah, our projects I would say they average between a couple hundred thousand up on over to a million. we do a lot of kitchens, bathrooms, large scale renovations, additions, that sort of thing. And

Dan Flansburg: Yeah, the last five or six years have have been, you know, a lot of growth and not only, you know, staff wise, but also growth just just getting better as as a company.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. So I’m curious. I mean, you know, again, you you said kind of early on you just sort of taking whatever odd jobs, whatever projects came your way, you know, and now you’re, you know, doing doing some jobs that are over a million dollars. I mean, tell us like what what was like the progression of, you know, that that for you over the last several years? Like how did you kind of grow into, you know, taking on these larger jobs and and, you know, kind of building out your team like, you know, ’cause a lot of people I see tons of people, they kind of start off just same same situation.

Eric Fortenberry: very early on, just kind of scrapping to try to find anything to keep keep the business you know, alive and going. So how how did you kind of like where where were those big sort of pivotal you know, milestones or turning points for you that helped you really kind of catapult?

Dan Flansburg: I would say, you know, part of it was so the first year was just me and and just doing stuff by myself. And after about a year I hired someone. And as in many things in life, you know, usually it’s going through something difficult or a challenge that that helps, right? So when I worked for somebody else, I fell off of a a structure that we were framing, unfortunately, landed on my feet but shattered my heel.

Dan Flansburg: So I was young, I was like 30 years old at the time, and you know I healed quickly, but after that I’m like, you know what, I gotta do some things differently here and and and learn some things. So fast forward to when I had my own company, I hired somebody after about a year, but then also from doing that work, I ended up with a hernia. So I had like a a six-week period where I was out, not able to physically do the work. So I had to learn during that time to be able

Dan Flansburg: to delegate just in a s on a small scale, just you know, delegate some of the carpentry and and let go of of some of the things that I was doing every day. So that that was one piece that that helped me be able to see, hey, you know what, it’s actually nice when, you know, I can focus on the business and let somebody else do the physical aspect of it. As much as I loved doing the physical aspect of it and you know I was pretty good at it as well, watching

Dan Flansburg: somebody else do it, getting results through someone else, and watching you know the reward that they have as well. That starting to resonate with me a little bit. And then fast forward a couple years, I s I s for three or four years we stayed at the size where it was just me and two like lead carpenter type guys in the field. So I was doing all the selling, estimating any admin stuff, I was doing that at night in a

Dan Flansburg: little office in the in the corner of our attic. and that, you know, a a a year or two of doing that that got old pretty quickly and I kinda

Dan Flansburg: said to myself and to my wife, I’ve either gotta learn how to grow this into a a regular business or I might as well just go back and and work for somebody else. Because at that point, you know, I was probably making what I would have made per year as a salary working for somebody else, but I was spending, you know, fifty percent more time than I would have been spending. So if you add up the hours and you do the math, you know, maybe I was making twenty five dollars an hour or something and at the time

Dan Flansburg: you know, back then I I if I went to work for somebody else I would have made thirty or thirty five dollars an hour. So it’s you know y you have to get some return on the investment of time and everything.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. Did did you ever reach a point where, you know, you you realize that like, you know, either the client wasn’t a good fit or the project wasn’t a good fit and like you started to be able to kind of, you know, walk away from those that that you just didn’t think would be a good fit for the business and and sort of be a little bit more selective.

Dan Flansburg: Yes, that was that was something I had to learn. Yeah, ’cause early on you take whatever you can get. So probably four or five years in, I stopped messing around with some of the smaller jobs or some of the like roof repairs and and things like that. They just were just out of the the wheelhouse of what I could really do at the time and focus more on like kitchen and bathroom modeling, additions, and that’s that’s something of

Dan Flansburg: Note too is is back then even it was when it was just me and and a couple people, you know, we we would get like a I remember how happy I was the first time we got like our first small addition and just thinking, all right, I’m gonna do the best job we possibly can on this, make this client happy, and you know, see what that see what happens with that. And you know what that turned into doing something at the neighbor’s house and the other neighbor’s house and then that neighbor referring us. So that’s so starting with those.

Dan Flansburg: types of jobs and not being you know, not being not turning them away type of a thing or saying, this is this is not good enough for me or something. There was a balance, right?

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. And when you like when you think about like who your ideal client is, like how do you how do you define, you know, what you’re looking for and and aren’t and are there red flags that you look for, you know, in choosing not to take on a client?

Dan Flansburg: There’s a few things we we look for. I would say, you know, the ideal client for us is someone that has lived in their home for a little while. They’re they’re staying in their home for more than ten years. They’re very financially stable. I would say 90 to 95% of our clients are paying for the projects in you know they’re not they’re not borrowing money to to pay for the projects.

Dan Flansburg: Some of them are retirement age or very close to it and paid off their home. Paid very little for it you know, twenty years ago and they they have a either they don’t have a mortgage or they have a very low interest rate. So we we look for that. and also there there’s some other clients too that are the demographic where they’re a little younger, young kids, things like that. They’re looking for

Dan Flansburg: They’re not only looking for for quality of construction, but they they don’t have time to, you know, buy the tile or pick out, you know, go go to the the cabinet supplier and order the cabinets. So the the clients that come to us, they they want a full service company, somebody that’s gonna manage everything from from beginning to end and get them involved as as needed, as they make their selections and things. But

Dan Flansburg: Yeah, so that’s there’s a a few different types of ideal clients we have.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. So maybe walk us through like what what is your kind of what what’s the process look like from someone hearing about you, finding out about you, you know, w are are they going to your website? Are you, you know, how are how are you kinda, you know, calling them, qualifying it, and then ultimately, you know, what’s what’s that process look like for, you know, design, estimate, getting them getting them all the way into the into the construction.

Dan Flansburg: So that that’s something that’s definitely evolved to the last, especially the last six or seven years. the way that that works is they typically call the office or they they fill out a form on our website, which you know can come from various different places, whether a a Google search or a referral, and we track all of that as well. So they they’ll they’ll fill out a form on the website or call. And then we have a pretty

Dan Flansburg: It it’s simple but we have questions that we like to ask on a phone call. We try not to overqualify on that phone call, but we always do a phone call about fifteen or twenty minutes to see if we’re the right type of company for them, they’re the right type of client for us, it’s a good mutual fit. And then if it does seem like they’re looking for our type of company, then we’ll we’ll schedule an in home consultation and that’s an hour consultation. We we schedule that, we go out to see them.

Dan Flansburg: Get a general idea of what the project is. And then again, if it you know, we we have a bunch of questions that we ask and and qualifying that we do, especially on that in-home visit to see if they’re a good fit. And then if it seems like they are, then we’ll bring that information back to the office. We’ll write up what we call a design agreement, and then for the second

Dan Flansburg: in person visit we require them to to come to our office to review the the design agreement and then if they want to move forward with us they’ll sign that, give us a deposit, and then we begin design work. And we have a very extensive pre-construction process as well. So we you know start with some preliminary designs and then you know boil that down, go through selections and then you know have trade visits and

Dan Flansburg: final estimating, final budget review, contract review with the client. Obviously a lot of steps in there that I didn’t mention, but there’s we’ve spent a lot of time, especially the last few years, like I mentioned, really developing not only the intake process and the questions that we ask, but also you know, making sure that they’re right for us and then once they sign with us, then you know, a very detailed process after that as well.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. You you mentioned earlier that, you know, you you actually have designers on staff. Have you have you always done the in house design or was that a change at some point that you decided to bring it in house?

Dan Flansburg: Started doing that in 2019. that kind of happened. It wasn’t necessarily a a a really thought out plan. It was at the time I was, you know, struggling a little bit with with staff and we were right at that point where we were starting to grow a little bit in 2019. And you know, I was struggling with filling the production management position and just in general. So

Dan Flansburg: I ended up hiring someone back then that I actually ended up hiring her initially as the production coordinator and she had a design background and it ended up where that wasn’t the best seat for her and we got somebody else to do the production coordination and she started doing design. She had some sales background, so it was an opportunity to let somebody else do sales and design and it worked.

Dan Flansburg: for for a while doing it that way. So yeah, it wasn’t quite by design, but it kind of evolved that way.

Eric Fortenberry: Well I’m curious, mean your you know your your your website is looks looks awesome. You got some really great looking work, professional photos, like curious like at what point did you really start kind of investing in marketing? Like when did you build your first website? Like how did how did you kind of your your marketing initiatives get get launched and and how how far in were you?

Dan Flansburg: So the first website was was very very rudimentary. I think it was that was back in like 2012 or 13. you know, I was like at at a job and the the guy from Yellow Book stopped by or I think it’s called High Boo now or something and they’re like, well we’ll build you a website and it was it was terrible, the marketing they did was terrible, but it was just not not what we needed.

Dan Flansburg: So fast forward to about, yeah, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, that’s where we that’s when we we hired like a real website builder to build our website. That’s where I really started to see the value in investing in in real marketing, in a real SEO company that really listens to you and and you know, gets your client profile and

Dan Flansburg: your targets and everything. So yeah, that happened around that twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen time period. And then also, you know, I s I that’s when I really started to see the value in investing in paying someone to do the photography, and just yeah, getting, you know getting on things like Google reviews and and other reviews and just really getting that the online

Dan Flansburg: profile, strong and also obviously we always want to keep the the word of mouth and the referral pipeline going, but just the the importance of having a good online presence as well.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure, you know, and I I know it can take a long time to to really build that presence and to create the you know, all the content and getting everything built out on the website and like seeing the actual, you know, marketing, you know, impact. I mean, how how how how long and and and what did you sort of start to see, you know, or when did you start seeing like that that

Eric Fortenberry: Like that you knew that marketing and your website and the reviews, like c could you tell at some point when when when leads started like picking up or the, you know, kind of you’re getting better quality, you know, leads and customers, like was there was there any sort of moment where you you knew that it was it was worth the investment and you wanted to keep going?

Dan Flansburg: Yeah, I think you know, i I think marketing in general sometimes it’s a bit of a roller coaster ride. So I know that, you know, early on when I when I paid a professional company to to build the website, that was like the first like aha moment like where I was like, Wow, this is this is way better than what was done before. yeah, we had the High Boo one and then in between we built our own on Wix or something and that the one on Wix was terrible. That was

Dan Flansburg: had like iPhone pictures on there and and and then after you know we had a professional company build it it was ten times better. so yeah I think that’s when I first started to see the the value of it. And you know, we went through a a few different marketing companies before we found one that was really the good a good fit for us. but yeah it it’s

Dan Flansburg: you know, some of those Google campaigns and things like that, sometimes you spend money on you see results for a little while and then you don’t. As as somebody who is you know, comes from the hands on world I I struggle with with that sometimes, with you know, there’s not tangible results.

Dan Flansburg: Or not necessarily there’s there’s tangible results ’cause when yeah, when the leads start coming in. But it’s it’s it’s tough waiting for it and writing those checks sometimes. So

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah. Would you would you say, I mean I like I can tell, like, you know, on your website you’ve got you know, a lot of you know, you’ve got the the the home remodeling cost guide, you’ve got, you know, case studies, frequently asked questions, you’ve defined your processes, like, you know, it seems like you you’ve you’ve really tailored a lot of your content towards educating, you know, your your your customers or future customers, like do do you think that that strategy has you know has has helped? Like can you can you tell

Eric Fortenberry: when somebody comes into in into your process, like whether they have, you know, really read your website and kind of consumed some of that content, watched some of your videos, like is that is that a noticeable difference?

Dan Flansburg: absolutely. Yeah, that that that does that does help quite a bit. And and we can we can really tell when we ask some of our our qualifying questions how much research they’ve really done on it. So you can tell when somebody hasn’t on on the other side of that as well. Like, you know, folks will call and say, Hey, I have a insurance repair job, you know, the I have a hole in my sheetrock in the in the living room ceiling and if you go on our w website there’s nothing that indicates that we do.

Dan Flansburg: insurance repair so and then contrast that with where you get the client that’s like hey we want to do an in-law suite edition we want to hire a company that’s design build they already know they’ve already you know watched all the YouTube videos and and as well I think that’s that’s something worth noting video we started doing that

Dan Flansburg: maybe two and a half, three years ago and that’s that’s been huge.

Dan Flansburg: Just in in simple form of just communicating, you know, how projects evolve and letting it builds trust and letting clients see, hey, you know, they took on this large scale renovation. We can see the before, we can see during, we can see okay, there were some challenges here with the foundation that that got fixed and you know, then here’s the finished product if the final walkthrough. That’s been video has been a game changer. I think any any remodeling.

Dan Flansburg: Modeler

Dan Flansburg: doing mid to you know upper end remodeling should should definitely be

Eric Fortenberry: Couldn’t agree more. I mean, video is video video is king, you know. It’s it I I think people want to hear from other people that have, you know, gone through the same situation, they’ve gone through the same process. Like, what was it like to them? You know, I think there’s just that like that inherent trust when you hear from someone else versus you just hear from the company or salesperson or, you know, somebody who’s got that bias versus like, look, I was in your shoes.

Eric Fortenberry: I hired these people. Here was the problem I had. Here’s how the experience was. Here’s the outcome. Like we’re extremely happy. We recommend them. I mean, like, that is so valuable. You know, so I I I I love seeing kind of how you guys have really embraced that and you got it directly on your website. you know, what what other I’m cu I’m curious like well, how are you producing these videos? Are you doing that in house or is that done through the marketing agency or like

Dan Flansburg: We have a a separate videographer. He does our geography and our our photography. so yeah, he’s a local guy that you know we we met through another company. He does a couple other companies that are similar to us in the area as well. And just a you know, just a a young guy who’s got a a photography and and videography business and yeah, it’s great. He does a great job.

Eric Fortenberry: Nice. What other types of videos are you doing beyond like just kind of those those testimonial type videos?

Dan Flansburg: So we do the testimo the client testimonials, we do the walkthroughs, you know, some of those I’ve we’ve been trying to do ones where it’s someone other than me on the video, so we’ll have like our you know, one of the designers out there explaining features of the cabinets, or we’ll have our our production manager out there explaining, you know, how the the client

Dan Flansburg: how the process was was managed, how the project was was managed and how the pieces all came together. So we try to look at it from a a few different angles as far as, you know, before, during, after, and then put all the pieces together. So some larger projects will actually do three to four sessions of of video and and photographs at that project.

Eric Fortenberry: And have have you always been comfortable behind video or is that something you had to sort of grow into?

Dan Flansburg: It doesn’t bother me. Yeah, it’s you know, I think if you just act natural and just talk like you normally would. It’s we don’t script anything. I think that’s w you can tell when somebody scripts something, it’s very, you know, very mechanical and and and so yeah, I just try to be natural, as natural as I can be anyway, in my awkward in my awkwardness.

Eric Fortenberry: I see a lot of people who like they they know they need to, you know, be leveraging video, but like they just they’re they’re you know, they just got that that that fear that holds them back from just like, look, just pull it out, start recording, like just get you know, do it, you know, and and as you get more practice, more experience, like becomes more natural and then you quit you quit caring and just, you know, look, it’s it’s be raw, you know, be real, be just authentic and be who you are and don’t worry about did I say that right or that right, did I stumble, stutter, like

Eric Fortenberry: It just it’s who you are. And I think people really value, you know, that that that that natural, authentic, you know, recording versus, you know, something that, you know, people think is, you know, so perfect that it was AI that generated it.

Dan Flansburg: I yeah, exactly. That and that’s you know, it’s funny because I went back and looked at at a video that we did a couple of months ago and I noticed a w a word that I said incorrectly of one of the products that we used. I I used the word impervious and I was supposed to say pervious and I you know, I I mixed it up. And who who cares? You know what? It’s I know what was right. But like you said, you know, just being natural and and just letting it flow. It I’m on the if you’re familiar with the disc scale

Dan Flansburg: I’m a a s a h a very high C, so my I or you know, that outgoing type of personality is is I’m very low on that. So it’s not it’s not something that necessarily comes naturally to me, but yeah, you just gotta get out of your comfort zone and do it.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. Do you guys use like the disc profile within your company?

Dan Flansburg: Yeah, yeah. Everybody in the company has has taken it. We’ve kinda internally just done some some discussions on it and just see how we communic see how we can communicate better with each other. because yeah, we have a few that are similar to me where they’re C D or C S and we have others that are, you know, very high I and just the differences in that and and how to

Dan Flansburg: approach each other and when to approach each other, that sort of thing. It’s it’s been really helpful actually.

Eric Fortenberry: Sure. I mean look, you you know, Danny, you you’ve had a lot of success, you know, and and and and I know it’s been a long journey for you, but like has there been anyone, you know, in in particular, like have have you hired coaches or worked with, you know, any groups or anything that like you would say has like made a really, you know, impactful, you know, kind of just helped you to grow a along the, you know, the years?

Dan Flansburg: one of the the biggest things we did was in twenty nineteen we joined joined Remodelers Advantage and that was a it was a funny time to join an organization like that. So twenty nineteen, late twenty nineteen we signed up and then we did like our they called it jump start or something back then where it’s like your introductory teaching where y you go through some of their programs. So that was online and then of course twenty twenty.

Dan Flansburg: as you know, in March of twenty twenty, that’s when when everything went crazy with COVID. So that we were brand new members, so the meetings were online and I remember you know, there was this this one woman who used to be a facilitator for them. Her name is Judith Miller. She was very financially focused and, you know, she was all about the the books and and and keeping track of your finances and things and

Dan Flansburg: that really impacted me early on and and my wife who I mentioned. Her and her and Judith were kind of kindred spirits. so they they spent they spent some time together. So I think that’s so j joining RA was definitely one of the best decisions, business decisions we ever made. And at that point, you know, we were doing about a million about a million a year. so much, you know, about a quarter of the size we are now.

Dan Flansburg: And you know, we had some some issues going on. but we were still, you know, we were still slightly profitable at at that point.

Dan Flansburg: But that joining RA helped me to really see past kind of you know where I was at the time and be able to see, okay, there’s there’s growth opportunities here. I can expand the team a little bit, I can do it responsibly, add team members and eventually you know get myself out of project management and and you know doing some of the day-to-day things and and kind of graduate, not graduate but

Dan Flansburg: improve and and you know, start selling more, that’s when I realized I I really needed to learn how to you know go through a sales process and marketing, you know, that was that was where we started to really refine things and and really take a look at marketing. I think that’s the biggest thing with with RA is you know, you you kinda you have all your company financials and you you take a look at your company and then you

Dan Flansburg: bare all in front of these other business owners and you know, y you you look at it, you you look at each other’s financials and and work charts and things and make suggestions and and you try to help one another. And you know, that’s the thing that I love about it is we’re all there to to A help each other, B get better and grow, you know, as as leaders, as business owners and

Dan Flansburg: to work eighty, ninety hours a week. So that’s that’s the other thing it’s taught me is you sometimes a peer will have to say to each other, hey, why are you working 70 hours a week? You should you should delegate some of these things to you got these great people working for you and you’re not utilizing them the way you should be. So things like that, but a and a lot of a lot of other things.

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah. I mean it seems like, you know, kind of a lot of these kind of these these pivotal moments for you have sort of kind of kind of you keep kind of coming back to this this two thousand nineteen, you know, time frame and maybe that was, you know, right when you had joined RA. I mean, you know, I I I see this all the time when people surround themselves with others who, you know, are going through those same challenges, but they’re building businesses or focused on growth and overcoming whatever, you know

Eric Fortenberry: whatever issues and challenges come your way, I mean I you I think that was that that definitely must have played a huge impact on, you know, really helping you to to to get even more focused on, you know, how do I get how do I get out of the out of the field and get really focused on the business and growing the business. You know, I see, you know, that’s when you brought your your designers in house. It’s when you got, you know, some good website and and really started focusing on content and like, you know, it just seems like that that that must have played a a pivotal role for for your growth.

Dan Flansburg: Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s it it helped me see the bigger picture and I think that’s that’s the most important thing is really just getting above the business and and seeing what’s what’s possible, which before that I really didn’t really didn’t know what was possible. I just thought I was just gonna chug along and and struggle for the the rest of my career. Which I didn’t w

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah. You know, l lot a lot of you know, again, I I see this all the time. A lot of people are i they’re they’re you know, they’re chugging away, you know, head down, focused, just, you know.

Eric Fortenberry: doing doing the day to day and kind of having that growth, but it’s like if you don’t kinda take that step back every once in a while and try to look at the forest from the trees, like you can you can really see the much bigger opportunity and start to plan out instead of just, you know, month by month, now we start looking, you know, a couple of years out and where do we really want to take the business and and then you can kind of bring that back into, you know, a tactical plan that, hey, you know, we want to get to there eventually, but you know, what do we got to do between now and then, you know, to set ourselves up for that success. And you know, it seems like that’s that’s what you’ve you’ve been able to do.

Dan Flansburg: Absolutely.

Eric Fortenberry: And and you also worked with you you had mentioned you worked with Todd DeWalt, is that right?

Dan Flansburg: We did, yes. So that was about a year and a half ago. We went through his systematize your construction business. And what that really helped us do was really think about specifically our pre construction process and how we go through all of those steps. And what it really helped with was getting the team together

Dan Flansburg: you know, doing like a a process map which we weren’t really familiar with before. But I liked that process because it it helped align the team, it helped involve everybody in making the processes. And that’s that was something that that I’ve learned over the last few years is, you know having somebody who’s closest to the process or closest to the problem, having them

Dan Flansburg: develop what the solution is or develop what the process is is best rather than me just dictating this is what we’re gonna do. But having, you know, like I said, we have smart, capable people that that work for us and letting them be involved and and having them be involved, we’re gonna see better results. So that that was a really eye opening experience, just getting all of that down on paper and kind of putting it into a place where we all can see it and we all can follow it. And that’s we’re still

Dan Flansburg: we’re still we went through that his his program but we’re still actively looking at that information that we we got together and we’re going to use that you know going forward too to kind of rein things in a little bit more and you know set up our our accountabilities around a lot of those things as well.

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah, that’s great. I mean it’s you it’s it’s always helpful to have have that kind of outsider perspective who can give you that, you know, unbiased, just fresh look at the business, how how are things, you know, running, where are those opportunities to improve. But you know, just like you said, I I think it’s so important when you can involve your team in these processes and in these kind of, you know, these these moments where, you know, we we know something could be improved. Let’s come up with these ideas together.

Eric Fortenberry: you know, that that will that will, you know, almost always lead to them taking so much more ownership over it and then also being

Eric Fortenberry: excited to implement the change and to you know to to kind of, you know, make it happen versus being told that, you know, they have to do something and, you know, that that that that, you know, dictating, you know, them, you know, just n nobody, you know, I I think people would much rather feel like they get to make this, you know, impactful change and they can sort of lead the charge and and and and help everyone else around them versus, you know, just kind of being told what to do. So I th I think that’s a great, great mindset.

Dan Flansburg: Yeah, absolutely. No, and it’s it’s helped me learn a lot too, as well as, you know, about leadership and just letting people do what they’re what they’re great at and staying out of their way. And giving guidance obviously, but you know, sometimes it you just gotta let do what they’re gonna do.

Eric Fortenberry: Yeah. What what would you say about how, you know, how how have you focused on your team building, your your culture? You know, like how do you kind of create, you know, a really strong, you know, group of of people working together and and and really w wanting to show up and do a great job versus just kinda clocking in and out?

Dan Flansburg: That’s you know, that’s definitely something that’s that’s a tough one. I I think intentionally, you know, when when we hire folks we look for attitude. Yeah, obviously you’re looking for aptitude, but we’re really looking for attitude. Even in, you know, a carpenter or something like that, when we sit down and interview someone, we’re asking them questions that are

Dan Flansburg: you know, we wanna see kind of what their values are, how they’re gonna respond to to pressure and and and stress and things like that, ’cause it’s gonna come in a in a business like this. How are they gonna respond when there’s a a negative client or something goes wrong? And so yeah, we really we’re looking for we’re looking for attitude and culture fit. Culture fit in a sense, I think, you know,

Dan Flansburg: Me I’m not I’m not a micromanager in the sense I’m not going after everybody saying, you know, what what are you what’s going on with this? What are you doing with this? I I try and, you know, make that where

Dan Flansburg: know, everybody’s accountable obviously, but I’m not checking in with them on a on a daily basis in the sense where I’m managing every little detail of what they’re doing. It we have one-to-ones where I can check in and see how they’re doing, see if I can help with anything. but most of all just letting them do their their jobs. So team hiring I think has been one thing that that’s helped with that. You know, not me be the only one who weighs in on who we hire.

Dan Flansburg: also getting other perspectives, you know, doing separate interviews, being a little slower in our hiring. We’ve we’ve done really well with with turnover. You know, we have a couple people here and there that have come and gone, but we don’t have big turnovers, couple couple guys that have been here ten plus years.

Dan Flansburg: everybody else is, you know, five, six, seven years, so it’s we’ve got a really good really good culture in that respect where people stay quite a while when they when they work here.

Eric Fortenberry: That’s awesome, man. Well, I’m curious, what what’s the what’s the longer term plan here? You know, where where do you want to take the business? Where do you want to see it in the next you know five, ten years?

Dan Flansburg: Definitely want to get to a point where, you know, I’m I’m still selling. I wanna get to a point where I’m not selling anymore, where we kinda let some other folks do that and let let others grow in in that area where I can focus more on on business leadership. we’re we’re in the process right now of really rounding out our our leadership team and getting that dialed in where

Dan Flansburg: somebody’s accountable for each department, like, you know, accountable for production, accountable for for pre construction, sales and marketing, and then financial. So we’re working on that right now. And, you know, growth wise, we’re looking to grow maybe ten to fifteen percent per year, year over year. And you know not not get too big, but get to the point where

Dan Flansburg: We have a nice leadership team in place. You know, I’m kind of more on the side where I’m providing leadership and and just help, you know, removing roadblocks from people and not you know, not in the in the weeds in the day to day, which we’ve we’ve done well with, but growing the the design side of things where we where we evolve a little bit with our our pre design and and our

Dan Flansburg: full designs and just getting that dialed in. So there’s a there’s a lot of things but it’s we’re not gonna change anything drastically but we have a a bunch of plans in place for the next next three to five years.

Eric Fortenberry: That’s awesome, man. Well look, I I I really appreciate you you coming on and sharing, you know, your experience and your journey. I mean, you’ve you’ve you’ve you’ve been at it for a while, you’ve learned a lot, you’ve continued to make all the right moves and keep building the company. You know, as as as we kind of wrap up here, I’m I’m curious, like, what advice would you give to others who, you know, maybe earlier on, you know, in their journey or just starting off or

Eric Fortenberry: You know, thinking about starting a you know, a construction business. I mean, like what what do you wish that you would have known, you know, back in two thousand eleven when you start that that that you now know?

Dan Flansburg: I would say early on, learn as much as you possibly can about the financial side of the business. Even if you’re not a financially driven person, learning how to read a a profit and loss, learning how to organize a profit and loss, learning what numbers to look for. It seems boring to a lot of people, but I think learning all of that stuff has really helped me be able to see into the future, you know, and know to know if we’re we’re profitable.

Dan Flansburg: I mentioned, you know, Judith Miller and and my wife getting together back early on in RA and just you know, learning about like whip accounting and you know, seeing how much money you actually have in real time and not

Dan Flansburg: Not at the end of the year like a lot of contractors do. They wait ’til they do their taxes and they’re like, I wow, I lost money this year. Now I gotta increase my prices. But being able to make those adjustments in real time. And I think you know if I would have learned to do some of that stuff early on while we were at a smaller scale, I could have avoided some of those years in there. you know, I keep mentioning twenty nineteen, but there was a few years in there in twenty sixteen, seventeen, eighteen.

Dan Flansburg: where I had some employees that that made more money than I did those years. That’s that’s a tough pill to swallow. And that’s you know, sometimes that’s part of business growth and you gotta you know be tenacious and and stick it out. but there are times, you know, that’s the point where a lot of contractors really bury themselves and get into financial trouble.

Dan Flansburg: So I would say A, learning your financials, knowing how to really job cost I think is important, knowing how to really estimate and then knowing how to really say, Okay, did we make did we make any money on this job and having a a P and L so to speak on on every job and that that’s really been a a a game changer and the biggest mistake that I see others like me make and

Dan Flansburg: You know, especially if you’re one of those people that likes to spend money. My wife and I are both pretty frugal by nature, so I think we made it through a lot of those times because I’m not one of those people that’s gonna go out and buy a ninety thousand dollar pickup truck because I think I need it. I’m gonna look and see if we have the money first. But a lot of contractors are not like that and they’re you know, they just focus on the work and we’re just gonna do a good job. That’s great, but y you really have to know the the financial end of the business.

Eric Fortenberry: Couldn’t couldn’t agree more. I think it’s so important to to really understand, you know, the finances and and construction. You know, I mean cash flow is everything. A lot of people don’t don’t figure that out until it’s too late. And then, you know, it’s too late. but yeah, that’s that’s that’s really great advice, Dan. And you know, I I would encourage everyone to to really make sure that, you know, if they are not good at the fi finances and accounting and they if if if you don’t understand it.

Eric Fortenberry: then you really better make sure somebody on your team understands it or or find a a partner, you know, bookkeeper, accountant, somebody who can really help steer you because, you know, the the longer you take to get that foundation built, the longer it’s gonna take for you to to really take off in your business. Because without that understanding, without the discipline, without the job costing and understanding all of you know how how all the center works, like it’s it’s very difficult to profitably scale your business. So

Eric Fortenberry: I love that advice. I appreciate you sharing that. Appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey, man. It’s it’s it’s been fun to, you know, just even the last you know handful of years, you know, being able to to work with you, you know, here at Job Tread and seeing seeing your success. But I’m excited to to see where you where you keep growing and you know where you take the business. I have no doubt you will be very successful.

Dan Flansburg: Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on, Eric. You too.

Eric Fortenberry: All right, have a good one. See ya.