How to Turn a Stalled Business Into Your Most Profitable YearWith Corey Plourde of Core Remodeling Services

Eric: [00:00:00] Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories behind construction business leaders. We will share how they got started, how they found success, and the lessons learned along the way. I’m your host, Eric Fortenberry. Welcome to Builder Stories

Eric: Welcome back, everybody. Today, I am excited. I have got Cory Plourde here. He is the owner of Core Services. They’re located in Worcester, Massachusetts. Very excited to have you on the show, Cory. Did, did I say Worcester, Massachusetts, right? Did I get it right?

Corey Plourde: You got it right. Sounds almost like a native.

Eric: All right. Well, you know, it’s certainly in the- It’s a tough one ... spell the, the way that, that, that, that you gotta say it, so appreciate the coaching, uh, before- Yeah, no worries ... the show. All right. Well, look, why don’t you give us, uh, give us a little background, you know, who, who you are, how you got into construction, you know, what, what you guys do, things like that.

Corey Plourde: Yeah, sure. Um, it’s kind of a long story, but, you know, um, I’m 58, so I was a, became a carpenter five [00:01:00] years, you know, for five years after high school. Um, my best friend’s father ran a remodeling company, a business that was well-respected, and he gave me a chance to, uh, go to work for him, and, you know, started out with the normal stuff.

Corey Plourde: But that was in 2000, so that ended Let’s see. That was right around 2005 or ’7, right around there when, um, when I really started working for him. There was a couple things before I went to work for him, but, um, then the recession started to hit, and he was kinda getting older and was doing just some stuff to keep us busy, his son and myself.

Corey Plourde: Um, I just got tired of doing the coldest day. You know, I mean the highest roof on the coldest day for the lowest dollar, and I started looking for other options. So I answered a, uh, ad in the paper. The paper, right? Believe it or not. [00:02:00] Um, it was a sales ad for janitorial sales in, uh... I lived in Claremont, New Hampshire, a little town, mid-state New Hampshire, and it was in Springfield, Massachusetts, where the company was from.

Corey Plourde: And I spoke to the owner and he said, “You know what? I’m getting ready to make my choice, but if you’re willing to drive down here today, I’ll interview you. It’s about a two-hour ride.” I was like, “Uh-oh. Now what?” Um, I had never done any sales or anything, but... So I put on my best, uh, plaid shirt and my best pair of jeans with the least amount of holes, and I drove down there and met with, uh, him and the, uh, vice president, and they offered me the job that day.

Corey Plourde: And then it was like, “Oh, no.” You know? But, uh, that’s, that’s how it all started. Um, janitorial sales. I remember with- going into my first little nursing home with my little caddy of cleaners and going to try and find the head housekeeper and try and sell him some cleaners, right? So that’s how it started.[00:03:00]

Corey Plourde: Nice. And I, I worked for them for, um, a few years. Um, actually did very well, and then I went to work for another company that was kind of a c- a competitor but still far away. And I worked for them for, like, four or five years, then they sold, and, um, I went to work for a corporate, a large corporate company called Ecolab.

Corey Plourde: Uh, they’re a global company. Uh, everything around the in- you know, the, uh, hospitality industry. And I was with them for 18 years. Um, so that was my corporate life. Um, I managed a lot of sales teams. Um- And, you know, that was sales and management, you know, for a long time. And I loved it. I loved it. And my, my daughter was born, and then, you know, life changes, right?

Corey Plourde: You know, so she was born in 2002. I was traveling a lot, so I wanted to be at all the plays and all the, all the stuff that, you know, you wanna do with your kids. [00:04:00] And so I kinda lost the zeal for what I was doing. It was no longer about the next promotion and, you know, the bigger raise. It was about being able to be home with her, and I started thinking of an exit strategy.

Corey Plourde: And I knew enough about carpentry to be dangerous. You know, I always tell our customers, “You don’t want me building your home. You want my team building it. You want me running the business. Trust me.” Um- And, you know, I, I just... Everything came back to the trades. You know, I had owned some apartment houses, always did my own work.

Corey Plourde: And, um, I started developing a business. It was actually, what a lot of people don’t know, but it started as core handyman services. Um, ’cause that, I was, at the time, married to somebody who worked in hospice and was a hospice rep, and everyone in that community, in the e- elderly communities, were looking for somebody safe to be in their home, who could fix the steps and those type of things.

Corey Plourde: So that’s what I started the business around. [00:05:00] And, um, I built the company. I never planned on being in the field, uh, which is a challenge, right? So, ’cause on day one, before you have any customers, you have a employee you gotta pay. So that comes with its own level of fear, but it took off well. Um, my, my goal was to build a company that was built around professionalism and a lot of the things that the trades aren’t well known for, great communication, uh, great follow-up, all those type of things.

Corey Plourde: That stuff came from my corporate life. And, uh, it didn’t take me long, you know, to realize that, uh, it took as long to generate an invoice for a $500 day job to a $15,000 bathroom, which was a big deal to me at that time. You know, so people started asking, “Hey, can you do a bathroom?” I was like, “Absolutely.”

Corey Plourde: Salesperson comes out first. And then, um, I changed the name to, I think it was about two years in, to Core Remodeling Services. Um, [00:06:00] and that’s when the business really started to take off with bigger jobs. You know, when people look for a nice kitchen or a bathroom, the word handyman in there sometimes throws them off, you know?

Corey Plourde: So that’s when I decided to change the name. So that’s kinda the short version of how the company got started.

Eric: That’s great. I, I, I love that, you know, again, you, you had that experience working, you know, at a small, couple small businesses, sort of seeing what it was like there, and then you went corporate, you know, got to see the, the large businesses, how they operate.

Eric: But- Yep ... you know, you, it sounds like you really, you took away some good lessons from that, you know, professionalism, communication, follow-up, you know, and I, I think you’re exactly right that those are, you know, th- those are things that, you know, we see a lot of, of contractors struggle with. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s probably because, again, they, they came straight out of the, you know, out of the fields.

Eric: They’re, they’re, you know, great with the tools, but, you know- Yep ... hadn’t necessarily had that experience, you know, running, you know, and, and being in, in a larger, you know, business where, you know, those, those things are, you know, front and [00:07:00] center.

Corey Plourde: Yeah,

Eric: absolutely. Uh, so yeah, de- definitely, definitely a good skill set to, to bring.

Eric: And then, you know, I love that, you know, again, family and, and, and life came about and, uh, l- led you to, to kind of take that leap of faith and go out on your own, which is, uh, which is always really exciting to start a new business.

Corey Plourde: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s, you know, I don’t wanna jump off the, you know, where you wanna go, but the biggest challenge there was, you know, I started the business actually in June of 2012, but I still had my corporate position, which is, was a sales position.

Corey Plourde: So as you n- probably know, in sales, if your number’s there, no one cares what you’re doing. Um, so it was, you know, doing my corporate thing in the daytime, building the business at night, trying to run it, you know, from the road and all those things. Um, and I was underfunded from the beginning, you know, so I, I borrowed against my 401.

Corey Plourde: Didn’t realize how much it really took, you know, and I came in with a corporate attitude. You know, I wanted to [00:08:00] build spreadsheets and track this and track that. Spent a lot of money that I didn’t need to spend because I didn’t have a customer yet, right? So, um-

Eric: Out of curious, wh- where do you think you, you know, wh- where, where did you spend money early on that you think maybe wasn’t the best use of funds at that time?

Corey Plourde: It was... Well, the best decision I made was hiring a, um, office services company to, you know, do the books, answer the phones. I had a dedicated person, so we looked bigger than we were. When you called, you got Stacy, and she knew the whole company, about the company. Um, and she’d schedule my appointments. My mail would go there, so I actually had a business address, and that was one of the better things that I ever did, and I’d say that to any contractor that’s starting out, um, to do that.

Corey Plourde: But I ended up paying them to develop, you know, [00:09:00] tracking sheets and spreadsheets and things that I requested, uh, that worked well in the corporate world. You know, tracking sales and everything like that. Uh, so I spent a fair amount of money around there. S- uh, spent a few, some money on, you know, some people that were business consultants that really weren’t good.

Corey Plourde: Um, you know, so I wasted some money there. Um, some of those are some of the areas I would tell people to look out for. You know, just before you go out and get some customers first Yeah ... you know, before you start building stuff to track everything that you don’t have yet. That’s a, just a little tidbit there.

Eric: Yeah. You know, that, that’s, that’s great advice. I, I’ve, I’ve definitely, you know, over the last, you know, two decades or so, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve seen a lot of companies who, you know, they, they, they spend a lot of time upfront sort of, you know, what, what I’ll describe as over-engineering, you know, the, the business and setting up all these elaborate in-depth, you know, processes [00:10:00] and, and- Yeah

Eric: and, and that’s great and all, but at the same time, like, your opportunity cost is to go focus on sales. Right. And let’s start getting some, some leads coming in. Let’s get some customers. Exactly. You know, if you don’t, you don’t need to focus on scaling the business until you need to scale the business.

Eric: Right. You know, I, I s- I see a lot of people who, who take their eye off the ball and, and, you know, again, I mean, it sounds like, you know, you, you’ve got natural gravitation to sales, but, you know, anyone else who, who doesn’t have that drive to go do sales, you know, will often find any other task that they can do that makes them feel productive to go do that other than pick up the phone- Right

Eric: and smile and dial and focus on sales.

Corey Plourde: Right.

Eric: You know? So it’s, it’s, it’s often a, you know, it, it is a, it is a challenge early on to, to figure out like what is the highest, you know, use of my time and my funds. I mean, if you got very low, you know, little, little funds available, like, you really gotta prioritize every single, you know, dollar that you spend to make sure it’s on the highest effort there.

Corey Plourde: Yeah, exactly. Like I said, I borrowed against my 401, which I, I think it was 50 grand [00:11:00] that I took out, and then the rest was kind of out of my pocket and stuff. But those f- first year or two was, you know... First year was pretty sketchy on financials. Yeah. You know, I still have a picture of my first invoice, which was at my neighbor’s house.

Corey Plourde: Um, for 125 bucks on my wall, my handwriting, you know, changed light switch, replaced one outlet. You know, that was the first check that I got. Nice. You know, so, um, and that surely wasn’t g- gonna... I hired one employee as a, you know, to do all the work in the field, but I took one week of vacation to work with him side by side, so he’d see how I wanted things presented and everything like that.

Corey Plourde: And then, uh, after that, we had to develop enough sales. We did, um, you know, feet on the streets. We made brochures, went door to door. Um, I paid my daughter and some of her friends just to go into neighborhoods and drop those things and put them on doors. And, [00:12:00] uh, that’s how it started. Just, you know-

Eric: What do you think was the most effective, you know, marketing that you did early on to, to get those first, first handful of customers?

Corey Plourde: It was just that. The, um-

Eric: The door to door?

Corey Plourde: Door to door, ’cause I, I also was looking into franchises, handyman franchises, and after talking to a number of them, I felt I could build a, build it. So a lot of the thought I had in the beginning was building a franchise. Um, but just going door to door, and then every job we’ve got, it would be, we had the, like a tri-fold brochure with a door hanger on it.

Corey Plourde: We would just walk around every house that’s nearby that one job and put door hangers on their mailboxes and on their, uh, doorknobs. And for handyman, that worked well, you know, ’cause I thought we had a pretty neat brochure. It looked nice and professional. And it, it worked well. We went into those nice neighborhoods that were, you know, [00:13:00] everyone’s got problems, and in that day and age, everyone was pushed towards computers, and I don’t think fathers were handing down the how to fix a sink as much anymore.

Corey Plourde: Um, they were handing down experience on how to program computers and everything like that. Um, it just worked well. A lot of those neighborhoods didn’t have anyone to do that stuff, and they want-- They’re looking for somebody professional. They don’t want just anybody in their home. You know, we had a big logoed vehicle.

Corey Plourde: Um, you know, it-- we just looked bigger than we were, and we looked professional. But in the beginning, it was door to door until we built our first what I’d laugh at now as a website, but no one else had one. You know, so, uh, then that started to work well. You know, um, I d- had to learn marketing and ev- all those things.

Corey Plourde: In the beginning, it was just all me, you know, trying to figure it out. You know, reading a few books and doing it. [00:14:00]

Eric: What, uh, w- h-how, how far in was it when, when you built your first website?

Corey Plourde: I would say we were working on it be- right before we started. I think it was probably three or four months in when we first got it up.

Corey Plourde: You know, we, we found somebody who do- did it on the side. I think we... Back then it still s- was a lot of money. I think it cost four grand, you know, um, to build. And then, um, but I, if I remember right, it was probably about three or four months in when we actually got it up and going.

Eric: Gotcha. And, and when you think about, you know, again, it’s, it’s obviously everything’s, you know, a lot, lot easier in hindsight, but, you know, when, when you think about kind of how you started in the handyman, you know, arena, but then ultimately have, have since transitioned to, you know, full remodels and much larger projects, you know, obviously that’s, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s a big step up.

Eric: You know, do you, do you wish you would’ve started going straight into the remodels, or do you think it was good that you spent, you [00:15:00] know, h- however long kind of doing the smaller jobs and kind of sort of building it up, you know, naturally and, and then kind of getting that confidence, getting your crews in place?

Eric: Like, w- would you recommend that to, to others who are maybe looking to start a business today?

Corey Plourde: For me, I think we were able to generate a lot more jobs quicker, you know, because back then, you know, a, you know, a full bathroom remodel, people are looking at you differently. You know, we marketed ourselves as a handyman fix it.

Corey Plourde: It was $500. I think back then it used to be six, $680 for a day, and it was half that for a half day. Um, and it just... So we got a lot of customers quick, you know. Um, right away we got, did some stuff for some friends and family and asked for referrals right away. You know, and got them up on our website, so, um, or references I should say.

Corey Plourde: Um So I think [00:16:00] that generated a lot more cash right away than going out and looking for $15,000 bathrooms when I had no referrals or references or anything or, you know, a kitchen remodel. Um, I had one employee. So you know, I... For me, that worked well. It got cash flowing, going quickly. We got customers quickly.

Corey Plourde: We were getting referrals quickly. Even though it’s small jobs, that’s what we’re marketing for. Um, I think it would’ve been a lot harder to find jobs, and I was underfunded to be able to fund that. I didn’t have the resources to order cabinets, you know, and the money that you gotta put up front to do a lot of those things.

Corey Plourde: So for me, in that situation, it, I think it worked best even though I didn’t plan it that way.

Eric: Yeah. And how, how long did you, did you go as the handyman?

Corey Plourde: It was, I think it was a year and a half in, I changed it to Core Handyman and [00:17:00] Remodeling, thinking I didn’t wanna lose the SEO on the handyman. Then I think it was at two years, I just removed handyman from it, um, at the end of two years, and that’s when we started getting the calls for the larger projects and stuff like that.

Corey Plourde: And by then I had two employees. Um, one was a very good, um, carpenter, and he was looking-- He became my first project manager as we grew. Um, we still got a great relationship today, even though he’s not with me. He actually works for me as a sub now. Um, but, you know, with his experience, I could take on a kitchen.

Corey Plourde: I could take... You know, I could sell it and then know he could build it. Prior to that, I could have sold it but we couldn’t have built it. Not well, at least.

Eric: So, so early on was the strategy to, you know, basically to, to kinda hire, you know, as you could, but, like, you know, when, when, when did you, when did you realize and [00:18:00] start kinda referencing or start, uh, you know, leveraging subcontractors?

Eric: You know, because I mean, obviously a sub can bring a whole lot of experience, you know, to the table, to, to the actual execution and that, that sorta does allow you to just go focus on sales, and you just kinda quarterback the projects. Like when-- You know, at what point did, did you sorta make that transition?

Corey Plourde: So I always had our own carpenters in the, at least in the beginning. Um, but I joined a BNI group right away. Um, I forgot to mention that. I ordered, you know, joined a, a business networking group, and they always have, you know, electricians. They have plumbers. They’re in all the groups. You know, they have, um- Demo crews, waste companies.

Corey Plourde: So, um, we had a plasterer in our group. So I found a lot of people just from that B&I group. Then once you’re in B&I, you know, you can go to the website and look at other towns, who they have. So I util- utilized a lot of the, uh, B&I network to find my first [00:19:00] subs, you know, to start handling. I met my electrician, my plumber, a cabinet guy, a countertop guy, you know, a house cleaner.

Corey Plourde: You know, all those people that we started u- utilize through business networking groups

Eric: Can you tell us a little bit more? So for, for those who don’t know what, you know, the BNI is and- Mm-hmm ... and how that network works, like was that, is that something that you have to apply to get into? Is it like a, you know, like a monthly subscription type deal that you’re paying for?

Eric: What, what- Yeah ... what were the, the commitments?

Corey Plourde: Yeah. So, uh, in BNI, that’s a short s- you know, abbreviation for Business Networking Institutional or... I forgot what the I stands for. But if you just type in BNI, it’ll come up. And every state has one, um, multiple groups. You know, like in Massachusetts, there’s probably eight different groups just based on location.

Corey Plourde: And they’re looking for one person to [00:20:00] represent each category. So if, if you’re a contractor, and they already have a contractor in that group, they’re not gonna accept you. Um, I was a handyman in the beginning, and they had a contractor, and they could differentiate the two and say, “Okay, they’re not the same type of business.”

Corey Plourde: So that’s why there’s multiple groups. Sometimes you gotta look around in multiple towns to find someone who has that opening. But they will have everyone from accountants to real estate agents, plumbers, electricians. Our group, I, I think I was in three different ones. Some are just starting. They might only have eight members.

Corey Plourde: They’re really trying to find people. I was-- I found my way into a very established one. I think we were up to 50, uh, 50 tra- uh, trades and p- professional, professionals. You know, we had doctors and everything in there. And the whole idea is you go to a once a week meeting, usually 7:00, 7:30 in the morning. Um, they go around the table, and the whole idea is, you know, they go around the table at every meeting.

Corey Plourde: [00:21:00] Everyone gets to know each other, but you basically give like your 30-second elevator pitch, you know, of what you do. And the whole idea is to network with everybody in there. Everyone tries to schedule dinners and lunches and, you know, everyone’s looking to, you know, get to know you. And if you’re reputable, they wanna refer you.

Corey Plourde: That’s a whole thing in that group, you know. So basically any time... I switched to using the eye doctor in there, right? You know. I switched to using the real estate agent in there in place of the one I had before. So everyone starts to use everybody in the group, but you gotta be good at what you’re doing or you won’t last long in the group.

Corey Plourde: They won’t refer you ’cause, you know, obviously. But it’s a very powerful group in the beginning, I would say for everybody. Long-term, anyone who’s been in business for a while may still be in one of those groups. The challenge you run into after a while as you grow, sometimes you need two and three if you have any companies And then one cabinet company that’s in there gets pissy ’cause you’re using other companies, you

Corey Plourde: know? Same thing with the [00:22:00] cleaner or the electrician or the plumber. As you grow, you might need two electricians. Um, that’s when it starts to get ... So I’d say for anyone young or in the beginning of their business or they, they’re looking to scale their business, it’s a great op- great opportunity, great, great network to be in.

Corey Plourde: Um- That’s great. And you- But I can see for me, I outgrew it because it just, we needed more of every different trade.

Eric: Sure.

Corey Plourde: Um-

Eric: Do, do you remember what, like, what was the cost to, to join that?

Corey Plourde: I think, and it’s been, uh, probably five, six years since I was in a group, I think back then it was 695 a year- Okay

Corey Plourde: or something along that line Um, it’s probably- It’s fairly

Eric: inexpensive.

Corey Plourde: Yeah, I’m sure it’s all relative now. You know, I’m sure it’s, um, you know, more, but it’s, it’s not craziness, you know, um, by any means. They have get-togethers also. They have, like, a board. You know, you tr- they try... Everyone tries to, you know, help out, you know, so there’ll be a, a board member group, you know, [00:23:00] that makes decisions on what the group’s doing.

Corey Plourde: And the dues, the dues are paid monthly, that’s right. Um, and then the, you know, there’s a treasurer and all that good stuff. So everyone tries to take part in, you know, being a real member in the group. And if you don’t participate, th- they’ll let you know, either start participating or beat it. You know? So, uh, similar, you know, to RA, right?

Corey Plourde: If you don’t participate, get out of here. We want someone who’s vested.

Eric: Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s great. And I mean, a- again, I, I couldn’t agree more that that is a great place, a great way, you know, for those who are, who are early on, you know, trying to, to, to meet others, to find, you know, find some good connections, some good trade partners.

Eric: Like, you know, finding groups like that, you know, is a great way to, to start to kind of build your, build, build your network there.

Corey Plourde: Absolutely. Absolutely. You wouldn’t believe how many things you end up using in those groups. You know, like back then, we now use ShareSync. We’ll be... And everything will be going to JobTread here [00:24:00] shortly, but, um, we use ShareSync.

Corey Plourde: Back, back then we were using Dropbox. So I met somebody who professionally knew how to set up the system in ShareSync so it’s locked and, you know, it’s got protections. If we let somebody go, with a touch of a button. You know, it’s things that you don’t even realize that you’re, you’re gonna need or... and they’ll be in those groups, and it’s extremely helpful.

Corey Plourde: I highly recommend it to anybody who’s looking to scale or is fairly new and trying to figure out how to get more customers. Um, ’cause they’re, they’re referring you to like people, you know? Um, and they know what you do, and so it’s not like they’re cheap leads or anything like that. It’s a true good, warm referral, so.

Eric: Sure. So you did that early on. Kind of tell us, though, what, what’s the journey looked like since, you know, since then, ’cause it sounds like you sort of outgrew that group a little bit. You, you made the transition to, to remodeling. You know- Yep ... started to see larger jobs. Like, I mean, tell us kind [00:25:00] of how, how has your team evolved since then, and, and, and where, you know, where, where have you gone to, you know, joined other groups?

Eric: I mean, you’ve mentioned, uh, you know, Remodelers Advantage, like other things like that. Like kind of sh- share sort of how did you go from there to, to where you are today?

Corey Plourde: Yeah. So after I got out of the BNI group, um, I joined NARI, the National Association of Remodelers, um, and the National Association of Home Builders.

Corey Plourde: So again, to anybody NARI is if, you know, just the quick is, um, a peer group, you know, that is all about also networking. And you meet usually once a month. It’s gonna be all the people in the trades. There’s plumbers, electricians. They don’t-- They’re looking for everyone. You don’t have to have one plumber.

Corey Plourde: It’s different than BNI. It could be five plumbers in the group, you know, and but they’re big meetings, and it’s about education. Um, it’s a different level of contractor that joins those groups ’cause it-it’s a commitment. You gotta pay so much a year [00:26:00] to be in. You gotta have so many continuing education classes to stay in.

Corey Plourde: So it’s a different level, and they also try to network within, uh, the groups ’cause, um, they’re putting their name on you, so you, you have to perform and do everything you say you’re going to do. And they’re just great resources, just tremendous resources when you need a plasterer or you got rid of your electrician.

Corey Plourde: There’s gonna be three of them, or, you know, there’s gonna be another contractor that, “Hey, here, call mine. My, my guy’s great.” You know, um, or plaster, paint, or whatever the situation that you might need. Tremendous resource in that group for building your business and h- getting all the connections right down to attorneys that just focus on remodeling and new construction, uh, contractors, you know, to write your contracts and everything like that.

Corey Plourde: National Association of Home Builders is very similar. So if you just Google those things, um, NARI, N-A-R-I, and NAHB, [00:27:00] um Yeah, National. Had to think about the letters there. Um, anyway, and those groups are as you grow, there’s just so many more resources they can help you scale. Um, those were huge. Um, I kinda stopped...

Corey Plourde: I’m still a member of both, um, but then COVID hit, right, in 2020, and kinda stopped attending the meetings. I got off the whack of doing it ’cause they were doing them online. It... Everyone was trying to learn, figure it out, right, and it kinda sucked. So, um, still a member of both groups, but I kinda got out of the, um, going on a regular basis and that networking piece ’cause it was blowing up.

Corey Plourde: And then as you know... It’s funny, I was listening to one of your podcasts, I forgot the one, it was a recent one just the other day, and it was talking about this kind of then all the aftermath [00:28:00] of COVID came and everything blew up, right? And everyone was so busy. You could be a crappy contractor and still be booked.

Eric: Yep.

Corey Plourde: Um, and after that, um, once that... And I think it was around 2023 r- when that started to come down, I hit a w- business wall. Um, my pro- m- my p- one project manager at the time and I, you know, he, he, I brought him in a bit. He wants to be a part of the company long term. I realized I didn’t... I w- I was just in a mental slump.

Corey Plourde: Um, I couldn’t. And it’s hard to admit it, you know, that you don’t know anymore. All my professionalism, everything I learned had taken me as far as I could go. And you only, as a... You probably know the saying, you know, “You only know what you know, and you don’t know what you don’t know.” And I used up everything that I knew, and we were-- I couldn’t see how to grow the company anymore and how to figure it out Um, [00:29:00] and I looked into Remodelers Advantage.

Corey Plourde: Um, at that time, I wasn’t quite ready to be stripped down, you know, and to show out all my ugliness and all the things that I couldn’t do and didn’t do right. Um, and then in 2024, I was like, “Something has to change.” You know, you know, I looked back and it’s funny, I, I started listening to podcasts. I said, “I gotta get back into networking, podcasts, learning.”

Corey Plourde: I’d gotten out of it, and it just felt like I hit a wall hard and didn’t know what to do next. And so I started to listen to, uh, Spencer Powell’s... He had a, a time, a podcast at the time where he interviewed remodelers. Just re- it wasn’t all about marketing, it was just he interviewed a different remodeler.

Corey Plourde: It seemed like every other freaking one mentioned RA, and that’s when their careers turned, and it helped fix everything. They were able to learn their numbers. And, uh, you know, [00:30:00] I listen- I think he had 286 episodes. I listened to them all, you know, over the course of driving to appointments and around and everything like that.

Corey Plourde: And then I, I think it was October ’04 that I-- 24 that I called, and, you know, you gotta go through an interview process, and they accepted me, and I-- January of ’25 is when we started the onboarding process. And, uh, it’s been the best decision I’ve made, and I’m only a year and a half, you know, into it. Um, Mike, Mike Hodgin, um, I don’t know, I believe you know Mike.

Corey Plourde: Um, he’s a facilitator. He was a facil- facilitator at my first meeting, and I really liked him a lot. And then he, then I hired him as our coach, and so I’m still working with Mike now, and, um, he’s fantastic. You know, he, he’s like savant-ish when it comes to numbers and seeing things, you know, in a different way.

Corey Plourde: [00:31:00] Um, so I would recommend to anybody if... It doesn’t even have to mean you’re struggling like I was. Um, but I would imagine that’s why people would normally go there, get in there, to get around like people, people that have been there, done that. Uh, they hold you very accountable to improving your business.

Corey Plourde: Um, you know, I won’t go through everything that, that you gotta go through in there, but you’re there, you’re sharing all your s- your ugliness and your secrets and all the stuff that you didn’t want anybody to know, and all that stuff. Uh, and truly learning how to Know your numbers. I know everyone says that, you know, what’s that mean?

Corey Plourde: It takes a while, you know. We’re still... I had a meeting with Mike just yesterday. We’re still making tweaks to get the numbers right, you know. And, and that’s what I found out. You know, basically I was, I was pricing my business to break even. You know, that’s what I, I [00:32:00] learned through that whole process. I wasn’t charging enough.

Corey Plourde: I didn’t have my burn rate right. We didn’t use a WIP, you know, a WIP report, um, work in progress, if somebody’s not familiar with that, and how to read them. And we’re, last year in ’25, we had our best net profit that we’ve ever had. You know, it was five and a half percent, but it was a lot better than what we had had in the past.

Corey Plourde: Um, and this year we’re still, I’ve set my largest budget, kind of getting off record from what, off the tracks a bit, but. So if I could pass on any advice, um, if somebody’s struggling or is looking to scale Definitely make the decision. There’s other great groups out there. Uh, down... I, I listen to some of their podcasts and everything, but I would highly recommend RA, um, for anybody, uh, especially if you’re looking to scale and you’re stuck or you’re [00:33:00] struggling.

Corey Plourde: Um, so that’s- Yeah, you know- ... kind of that story, how that evolved ...

Eric: yeah, R- R- RA is, you know, it’s, it’s a great group, you know, and, and, and I think kind of just like how you sort of figured out, though, like, you had to grow to the point where you were ready to join that group, not, not just financially, but, like, you know, again, mentally ready.

Eric: And it’s, it’s interesting how it kind of sounded like your, your initial sort of hesitations were because, like, you knew things weren’t running well, but, like, you, you, you just, you, you were, I, I don’t know, scared or embarrassed or whatever- Yeah ... it was to, to open up- Yeah ... and just, like, lay it all out there.

Eric: But, like, you know, it kind of sounds like now you’re like, “Now that I’ve gone through that and I’ve done that,” you know, it, it’s almost like a relief, right? It’s like getting this burden that you’re carrying around and, and you don’t know, you know, what to do differently or how to change, but, like, you know, that does weigh down on, on people and that ultimately can lead to burnout, you know?

Eric: Yep. So, so thank goodness, I mean, you, you found this group who, you know, you, you were able to feel comfortable, you know, kind of opening up and, and, and really sharing, you know, what your [00:34:00] challenges were. And, and, and I think so many people don’t, you know, again, uh, they, they, they struggle and they feel like they’re, they’re alone.

Eric: They’re, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re running the business, you know. Be- being, being an entrepreneur, being a business owner, I mean, yeah, like, it can be lonely, it can be very challenging. Yeah. Like, you feel like you don’t have, you know, a lot of people to sort of, you know, share that burden with. But, like, you know, that, that’s where it’s all about finding those groups and, and, and you’re right.

Eric: I mean, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of them, but, like, it, it takes that first step to go and, and, and to find them and then have the, the mindset of, “Look, you know, I’m gonna get, you know, w- w- you know, get out of this, whatever I put into it.” And the, and the more open, the more transparent, the more you can kind of contribute and just be, be open and real, you know- Yeah

Eric: the better feedback you’re gonna get to, to continually improve.

Corey Plourde: Yeah, definitely. And, um, you know, in my business, my fiance works in the business. She has her own full-time job, but she does a ton. She handles all our marketing. My daughter now is my office manager, and she does [00:35:00] fantastic, you know. And my future, uh, sister-in-law is our finance manager.

Corey Plourde: So then you have all those dynamics of family in there, and when you’re hitting a wall, my daughter wasn’t with us when I hit that wall originally, but, um, Melissa and Cara were, and it’s, it’s hard on them, too, ’cause, you know- I’m feeling like hell. And RA’s helped with that, you know, with just talking about the family dynamics.

Corey Plourde: You know, I, we had a two-day on-site meeting with Mike, um, two weeks ago now, and, you know, the whole team, and then just with the management team, and, you know, it came out, and I know it’s, it’s one of my weaknesses, and this is pl- probably way off track, but, you know I’m sure you’re familiar with the DISC, you know, um, process.

Corey Plourde: Technology profile. Well, I’m the high D, right? You know, I want everything done [00:36:00] yesterday. And everyone on my team, um, even my designer, are all high Cs, so they’re details and making sure it’s right and all those things. And it came out that, you know, I’m, I’m not showing enough appreciation because I don’t see everything that’s been done.

Corey Plourde: All I know is, you know, yes, I know you pushed 50,000 buttons, but there’s 50,000 more that still need to be pushed. Uh, and this is really around JobTread is one of the biggest things, ’cause it’s, it’s an undertaking, you know, as, as you know. But once you get there, it’s gonna take us to the next level. So it also helps with NRA, you can talk about those things, ’cause there’s other people in there that are going through transitions or working with their families and can help.

Corey Plourde: I... That’s one of the biggest things I gotta work on now, is making sure that I remember that everyone on my team is trying to do the best things for me, and I gotta slow it down because that’s... And that’s where I, I have a challenge sometimes, that, is I don’t show [00:37:00] people enough appreciation, you know.

Corey Plourde: Because I’m only seeing... I recently just bought the book The Gap and the Gain, you know, which... ’Cause I’m always looking at how much more we’ve gotta do, and I, I don’t look at all the good stuff we’ve done. I just look- Yeah ... ahead. There’s still more problems. You know, it’s- And it’s, it’s the wrong way to look at it, but-

Eric: Sh- sure.

Eric: It’s, it’s inter- ...

Corey Plourde: easy to do ...

Eric: it’s interesting too, though, like, you know, you know, some people might say, “Man, I, I’m, I’m so overwhelmed with my own business. How could I, how could I join this group?” And then, you know, uh, really give attention and focus to others and their business and their problems. But, like, at the same time, like, you know, e- every single other person’s business and their challenges, it, it offers an opportunity for you to reflect on your own- Time

Eric: situation. And, and, and maybe it’s like, man, like, you know, they are doing this thing really well, you know, that’s where I’m struggling. Or, or maybe they’re having the same struggles that I am. You know, like, having that perspective and that ability to sort of step out of your own situation for a minute and look in on some [00:38:00] other situations, like, it, it really does give you such great insight into what you’re doing well and where you’re struggling and what you could do better at.

Eric: And so, like, again, I, I think kind of getting involved in, in, in these groups is, is so valuable. Uh, you know, and, and, and like you said too, it’s, it’s about, you know, learning h- how can I be a better leader? You know, how can, you know, we, we know our numbers. How can, you know, we, we focus on the right, you know, metrics that are gonna make the biggest impact on our business?

Eric: And, and sometimes you just, you know, when, when, when you’re, when you’re down grinding, you know, it’s, it’s hard to take that step back and, and see the forest from the trees.

Corey Plourde: It is. It’s tremendous. So, you know, any advice to anyone who’s out there listening, and I know you got a lot of followers, um, it’s get into a group that’s like that.

Corey Plourde: Because you also have full access to them. O- outside of the meetings that you go to- Y- you can call anyone. They’ll get on a Zoom with you and go over how they do their marketing or h- whatever your problem is that you’re having, um, and talk through with you. [00:39:00] Anyone, everyone is extremely open, so the, the advice would be, one, join a group, and then two, continue with mentoring.

Corey Plourde: Hire a coach that fits your model or fits with you because the hard decision point is you’re like, “Either I’m already struggling, how can I pay this much to be a part of this group and then pay this much to have a coach?” I was thinking the same thing, you know. But paying both of those last year, we still had our best net profit year ever.

Corey Plourde: So the, the groups and the coaches pay off. You just can’t see it up front. You know, you just can’t see it when you’re struggling.

Eric: Sure. So, you know, again, uh, last year, you know, 5.5% net- net profit. You know, it’s, it’s sounds like that was your best year yet, which is great. You know, you’re finally... You know, you’re, you’re in the black.

Eric: You know, we’re making some money. But, you know, what, what are your goals for this year, and, and what do you think-- I mean, what, what were the biggest changes that you made to get to that 5.5, and then what are you gonna do this year [00:40:00] to, to hopefully, you know, increase that?

Corey Plourde: Yeah. So we set a goal this year, um, and worked on it with Mike, you know, to really dial it in, um We set a goal, I think it was 9.5% net, which was, uh, would put us at about, uh, 3.6 million.

Corey Plourde: We finished, uh... And it’s a huge leap, and our biggest thing, ’cause we finished last year in accrual accounting just under 3 million. In cash, we were just over 3 million, but that was money we hadn’t earned yet, right? It was a bunch of deposits. Um, so this year, you know, we- it’s a big, you know, growth piece to try and do 600,000 more.

Corey Plourde: So what I really t- focused on last year is our average job size produced last year was [00:41:00] 78,000. And last year was a, for me, it was a hard sales year. W- It was behind what I was normally at. Our goal was to improve our marketing towards a higher scale customer. Um, so, so far to date this year, we’ve got 2.6 million sold, and the average c- sold customer size is 220,000.

Corey Plourde: So it, the marketing, which is done by Melissa, my fiancée, she, uh, doing it all at this point. She just digs in. She, she kills it, you know. Um, she’s built our website. She’s figured out AI. You know, she’s figured out SEO. Um, and we’ve gone back, she’s redone the whole website so it’s more AI friendly. You know, redid all our pictures.

Corey Plourde: Professional... We got a professional photographer. All Things RA said, “Hey, you gotta up- these things gotta be updated if you want this type of customer.” Um, [00:42:00] I was like, “I can’t be taking them on my phone anymore with toothbrush in the background and, you know, dirty glass in the sink.” So Melissa’s gone back and re-redone all our pictures and really upped the descriptions so AI finds them better.

Corey Plourde: And we’re getting, starting to get consistent leads from chat and, uh, uh, Gemini, which is, you know, all through her work, you know, no doubt. So those are the biggest things. Now the biggest challenge is I used to have six carpenters at one point, um, in through last year, and then, um, one got himself fired. T- well, two did.

Corey Plourde: One, uh- I’ll just say he, he took a shot at somebody going to one of our jobs . So he’s going away for a while. Um, and another one got himself fired just because it had to happen, and one, um, I laid off. [00:43:00] Uh, so... And then I hired my former production manager as a... He’s a true frame-to-finish sub, and he does excellent.

Corey Plourde: I’m at that balancing act of is it- am I gonna do more of a subcontractor model going forward, or am I gonna bring on employees, and I’m leaning towards a subcontractor. So we’re a little bit behind in production right now, but I think I’m truly working on that next key sub. I’ve been interviewing him and everything.

Corey Plourde: So that’s the biggest concern to making my number for the year is we’ve got the business, but we’re a little bottlenecked. So- Yeah ... um, it’s a little bit of a challenge. I don’t know if I’ll hit the 3.6. I gotta redo my, reforecast my budget. But, um, we’ve got all the pieces, the sales piece in place, and that I still wanna keep ramping up.

Corey Plourde: You know, I learned my lesson on, we didn’t market really much for years, and then COVID hit, and then we were blowing up, right? And [00:44:00] since then I’ve learned you need to market constant, you know? All the time you need to be marketing, uh, ’cause it’s not always gonna be rosy. And then when things do drop off, you know, as you know, the people that kept marketing through the good times, that’s how they really perform when it comes to bad times, when everybody cut back on marketing, so.

Eric: Sure.

Corey Plourde: 100%, you know, and it’s- More advice, if that’s, anyone can y’all get that.

Eric: No, that’s, that’s, that’s great advice. And, and again, I mean, like, you, you, you’re definitely in the much better situation to have, you know, the sales and, and having the opportunities that have, that have come in, and then to have to figure out how to, how can we increase our production?

Eric: I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s the much better problem than to, uh- Absolutely it is ... have more production cap- Yeah ... you know, horsepower and not have enough deals- Right ... and work to get them on, so. Yep.

Corey Plourde: You know? It was a flip around from last year.

Eric: Yeah.

Corey Plourde: So, yeah.

Eric: You know, you know, it’s, that’s interesting that you, you said that, you know, you’re, you’re getting consistent leads from, from ChatGPT and Gemini.

Eric: What, do, do you know, like, what in [00:45:00] particular may, may be leading to that? Because, you know, we’re, we’re, you know, a lot of people are like, “How can we get, you know, AI to, to recommend us?” You know, that’s, that’s a huge, huge, you know, benefit to you guys. Is there anything that, that you would attribute that to?

Corey Plourde: Melissa’s done a lot of work on it, you know, on, in, without trying to get into all the lingo and, ’cause I’ll screw it up. But, um, basically, you know, she redid all our picture descriptions, so it’s more of answering questions rather than looking for keywords. Um, she ... There’s all kinds of stuff you do on the backside of pictures.

Corey Plourde: I for- forgot the name of the tags and everything she’s done. Um, we’ve also gone in, um, and I’ve personally, we’ve done it with Gemini and with Chat, you go in and ask it, um, you know, “How can I give you more context to Recommend us when somebody asks you for the best [00:46:00] contractor or remodeler in our areas that we work in.

Corey Plourde: It’ll give you a list of questions to answer and say once you answer them all, you know, once you learn how to prompt it and, you know, everything like that, and keep asking better questions, it, it’ll finally get to a point where it’ll... And I’ve had it, we analyzed our website. Anyone can do it. Just ask Chat to go analyze your website, and it’ll come up with here’s all your things you need to do.

Corey Plourde: Here’s the top, you know, here’s priority, here’s second tier, here’s long term. Um, and if you just follow those things, it’ll start improving your website. Um, it’ll tell you what to do so it can find you. So, and we, you know, so we basically gave it all the information. Here’s what we specialize in. This is what our company’s built on.

Corey Plourde: Here’s our priorities, our core values, all those things. And, um, all that work is paying off. I forgot what it was [00:47:00] Through March, I think it was through three months, it may not sound like a lot, but nine chat leads w- came in in the first three months of the year. It’s getting to be... And just the other day, Melissa sent me, um, we just recently got three from Gemini, which, you know, so I, I’m, I haven’t even asked what it’s been lately, but, um,

Eric: it- And are, are you finding these to be, like, qualified leads?

Eric: Like, not just kind of, you know, I mean, sometimes, like on Meta, you get just a bunch of, you know, kind of click fraud and, you know, not, not, not quality leads. Like, these are actual quality leads that, you know, there, there’s a real opportunity here.

Corey Plourde: I think they’re more qualified than any normal leads from Meta or anything like that.

Corey Plourde: Nice. Uh, ’cause literally what we’ll ask is in our questionnaire when people, you know, go on, um, Melissa’s put it in there, you know, “What did you... If you can, can you specifically write what you texted in or [00:48:00] wrote into chat?” Yeah. And it’ll say, “Looking for the best bathroom remodeling contractor in Worcester County.”

Corey Plourde: Okay, great. Now we know the types of things it’s looking for. But somebody who’s typing in that is looking for a good contractor. You know, if somebody said, “Who’s the best front step fixer in,” you know, “in Worcester County?” Uh, it’s not gonna find us. So- Yeah ... um- Nice ... it’s really, you know, the leads tend to be very solid that come in, not that everyone is sold.

Corey Plourde: You know, but somebody who’s doing ADUs, ADUs have taken off for us, you know, accessory dwelling units are huge in Massachusetts. Melissa built a whole page on it, did it right. We’re getting a lot of the leads, but it’s, some of those chat leads are, “Who specializes the most in, uh, ADUs?” Or they’ll put actual ADUs, uh, in Worcester County, and it’s bringing us up, you know, just ’cause she built the page specifically [00:49:00] well done for AI.

Corey Plourde: You know, when you, you can take a page and just tell AI to word it so- It recognizes ju- you know, so AI will recognize it more, and then obviously you gotta check your work and tweak it and make it your own.

Eric: Sure.

Corey Plourde: Um, but just doing those little things.

Eric: What, what I’m hearing, what, what I’m hearing is that, you know, again, you know, with, with, with your wife’s, or fiance, sorry, M- Melissa-

Corey Plourde: Sure.

Corey Plourde: It’s, it’s my m- wife. It’s- Yeah ... 12 years, so.

Eric: Okay. So, so, so with, you know, with, with her help, though, like, you’ve put a very concerted effort on focusing on your marketing because you now understand the importance of filling that top of the funnel- Yeah ... getting the deals, getting the lead flow coming in so that you have those, those opportunities, you know, to, you know, those at bats to go and pitch the deal and then hopefully win them.

Eric: You know, that’s, that sounds like that’s really paying off and, and helping you guys to kinda, you know, keep that, keep that top of the funnel flowing.

Corey Plourde: It definitely, it definitely is. M- I’m excited about this year d- definitely from the sales side. [00:50:00] We also hired a designer last year who is also a salesperson, and she’s starting to produce now.

Corey Plourde: I think she’s sold year to date three, uh, 250,000 year to date.

Eric: Nice.

Corey Plourde: Um, you know, and I... That’s gonna be how I’m going to build a sales team. I like that, um, that picture, that concept. So what she sell- Right now, there’s not, she hasn’t sold enough, so she’s still designing some of my stuff and everything like that.

Corey Plourde: But the goal is to get it to where she sells, sells and then designs what she sells. And I would do, and then we would do it the same for another one. We’ve got so much business now that I’ve got a couple subcontractor designers working with us also, um, over and above her, ’cause she get, you know, there’s just too much to be designed right now that one person can handle.

Corey Plourde: So that’ll be the next step, is getting another sales/designer.

Eric: So [00:51:00] I, I wa- I wanna ask you, I wanna sort of pivot back to, to one thing you said earlier, was, you know, again, like, the, the importance of, of knowing your numbers. You know, you, you, you learn that you weren’t, you know, pricing your jobs appropriately.

Eric: Yep. You know, you didn’t understand your burn rate. You didn’t understand, you know, how much you needed to make, you know, from a gross profit perspective to, to cover your overhead, and then ultimately to, to put some, you know, put some on the bottom line. What, w- what could you share with others? ’Cause, you know, I, I, again, I, I hear this challenge every day.

Eric: Yeah. Pricing, I think, is one of the hardest things to figure out, really for any business. So, so kind of how, how have you learned? And, and so w- you know, kind of walk us through sort of your pricing strategy, and how, you know, how, how do you find that balance between, you know, earning what, what you need to make, you know, for the business, but, but not, you know, feeling like, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re pricing yourself out of jobs.

Eric: Like, how, how do you sort of walk that line, and, and, and give us any guidance you can there.

Corey Plourde: Yeah. So, um, we, we had a burden calculator, right? I had a coach that I worked with a [00:52:00] little bit when I was still in the handyman side, and he gave me a, a good estimating form and a burden calculator that he had developed.

Corey Plourde: So we put in there what we knew, but as I’ve learned through RA, you know, it looked like it was a lot, you know, that we were charging a lot p- for a burden, for a burden rate, but Until we started to figure out all our indirect costs, and a lot of people, without making it too much, you know, people just think of what’s on the job as, you know, my costs and what labor went into it as my costs.

Corey Plourde: But there’s so much indirect that a lot of people consider overhead that really should be moved up into indirect costs because they do affect a job. They do affect a job. I, um, like one of my project manager goes out, he’s affecting jobs. He may not, uh, do every job, so we figured out a percentage. We’re actually starting to [00:53:00] charge by the hour for our project managers and our designers, but a certain amount of their salary needs to be factored into that burden rate.

Corey Plourde: That’s just one example. And I mean, literally, I look back like three years ago when my burden rate was like $55 and then we had it up to 68. We corrected the whole thing and it’s at 115, right? $115 ’cause we moved a lot of stuff up into indirect, so it’s getting built into what we’re charging the customers.

Corey Plourde: And that looked like such a huge deal that I was like, “I love selling, but is that... That’s gonna blow us out of the water.” But once you get over that fear of the price is the price, you know, you can charge what, you know, you can-- you just gotta get by that head trash of, “Oh, it’s, we’re too expensive.” Um, so I don’t know if I gave the exact answer, but the biggest thing was figuring out how to get that burden rate so we were charging the right amount per hour [00:54:00] per guy, and that we were charging the customer for a lot of stuff that we were considering overhead.

Corey Plourde: Um, and that was probably the biggest thing. Obviously, learning how to u- use a WIP report Looking at it weekly, you know, a work in progress report showing you where you’re, you have slippage on the jobs from where you planned it, um, and where you have grippage, um, and being able to correct those things sooner than when it’s too late, which is when the job’s done.

Corey Plourde: Um, you know, and starting to look at those things, and those are all things that learned through RA, you know. And I know a lot of people don’t even look at their... Obviously, looking at your P&L on a regular basis, but, um, looking at a, a balance sheet. You know, a lot... I used to be scared to look at the balance sheet.

Corey Plourde: I, I, I didn’t wanna look at it. That’s part of the thing you don’t wanna admit. Um, but looking at the, those steps that you can take to start building up your equity, you know, and dropping your liabilities, um, is [00:55:00] all things, you know, starting to go over on a regular basis, and RA is, you know, a, a big deal.

Corey Plourde: And then you start to make little incremental changes that start to change that. You know, the goal is to have more equity, right? And assets than liabilities. So mo- a lot of people are underwater on that, especially if you’re young in the business or just getting started or have, hitting a wall, something like that.

Corey Plourde: Yeah. So all those- That’s, that’s- ... type of things, you know, go into starting to know your numbers.

Eric: Yeah. That’s, that’s great. And, and again, I, I see so many people who, you know, especially early on, like, they’re, they’re not, you know, they’re not